Does anyone use a single cowstails aswell as a double cowstails. I read in a book
that some people use the separate cowstail for an extra precaution exiting pitches??


Also, are straight gate krabs better than bent gate krabs for cowstails :-\

wallop said:

Does anyone use a single cowstails aswell as a double cowstails. I read in a book
that some people use the separate cowstail for an extra precaution exiting pitches??

Click to expand...

I don't have a third cowstail but do have a krab clipped to my central-maillon-to-top-jammer safety link. This comes in handy sometimes when rigging - see Cave Troll's suggestion in another message somewhere as he does the same thing.

wallop said:

Also, are straight gate krabs better than bent gate krabs for cowstails :-\

Click to expand...

Bent gates are intended to provide a larger gap when the gate is open to help when clipping a rope. This can be useful when rock-climbing as krabs are designed to be small and lightweight due to the large numbers needed and climbers "aren't supposed to" hang on the krab in a piece of protection when clipping in so the larger gap provided makes clipping easier when clipping the rope using one hand while the other is busy hanging on!

Personaly I think straight gates are better when krabs are used in caving since a larger krab will be easier to clip anyway and we don't normally carry large quantities so weight is not so much an issue. Having to clip the rope one-handed while not hanging onto it isn't an issue either.

I believe there is more chance of a bent-gate krab becoming accidentally unclipped from the rope than a straight-gate as, unlike when climbing, the rope is not moving but the caver and krab is. But that's just my opinion anyway.

Yes,  I have a third cowstail, a long one rigged right hand side.  Works fine, but my logic was to help when rigging, not driven by exiting pitch heads. Also good in traverses.

I experimented using separate footlook rope, krab at hand jammer and line to D ring making third cowtail if required, but concluded better to keep the "one-rope" solution for footloop to D ring arrangement; with oval krab at hand jammer (to which rope can be removed and a pulley easily added)       

But Im still learning and could change tomorrow 

This has been 'done to death' on other threads - try looking back through the older threads under 'Equipment' or search for "cowstails".

If you need to add anything or enquire further - reincarnate one of those threads.

I am with Sam T. It can be annoying when the same type of threads keep reappearing. However at least this thread is actually relevant to caving!

Indeed it can be annoying and pointless treading the same ground but theres only so much you can discuss without overlapping etc..
Forums are useful but not everyone will think of searching or can't be bothered traipsing through large numbers of threads, half of which are probably irrelevant to the original topic - a bit like the three replies above!!

However at least this thread is actually relevant to caving!

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What? Is that allowed? Perhaps we should start a poll to decide if this kind of behaviour is acceptable on a caving forum! :

And back to the topic, no I don't have a third tail nor do I see any need for one and these days I use straight gate after having used bent ones for many years and I can't really see much difference in them.

If Wallop asks a question, maybe, just maybe, Wallop should have a fair reply, disregarding older threads  ....

But perhaps not 

The number of cowstails I have usually found convenient is equal to two. I usually use a safety cord to my top jammer, but sometimes I "go French" and use my long cowstail for that purpose, reducing the number of cowstails available on the way up to just one. Almost everybody in France caves that way.

By all means carry three, four, five cowstails if you like....there is obviously a multi-way compromise here between convenience, weight, complexity, bulk etc. etc.

I use straight-gate offset D screwgates for my cowstails. The extra weight of screwgates is minimal and worth carrying. Bent gate snaps are not very suitable due to risk of opening by accident if you clip direct to a P-anchor. I don't like the look of wire gates, mainly because I wonder whether they would stand up to caving very well, but that could just be a prejudice. I have visions of mangling the gate in a tight crawl....

Mark

I have 2 cows tails (thanks faye)

k.i.s.s.s.s.

Keep It Simple Stuupid

cows tails ARE for security, short for testing, long incase it all goes wrong.

incidentally they're all straight snapgates.

I have 2 and both have bent gate spirit's on them. Has worked OK for me for 3 years, maybe I should change to screwgates? I tried wire gates on one trip and I thought they were useless, the barb kept getting stuck. That's why I like my spirit's so much.

Francis

wormster said:

I have 2 cows tails (thanks faye)

k.i.s.s.s.s.

Keep It Simple Stuupid

cows tails ARE for security, short for testing, long incase it all goes wrong.

incidentally they're all straight snapgates.

Click to expand...

Keeping it simple... That is the bottom line!

Two cowstails one long one short.

A 'bonus' third one can be gained 'gratis' by simply adding a krab to your hand-jammer maiilon if required.
No need messing about non-standard over-complex kit which can be detached and dropped!

Thanks everyone, just wanted to get a bigger picture of things.
Sorry if have offended anyone!!!  :ras:

Sorry Matt for being cheeky  :spank:I did a quick search and it wasn't so easy to find the answer to your question here.
Here are some threads that may be relevant:

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,816.0.html

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,2482.0.html

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,2938.0.html

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,243.0.html

Hope you are getting some good trips in!