I've been looking at the new CotPD, and in particular the caves that I am familiar with to see what's new, and it appears that the Abyss in Rowter has still not been climbed. It always seemed odd to me that something so obvious had not been climbed, and why is it called the Abyss? Shouldn't something called the Abyss be named from the top, not the bottom?

Also, the new CotPD still claims that: "Climb and traverse above Geology Pot to alternative route via Carnival Aven which enters stream passage just before Far Curtain". Has anyone actually followed this route? I've tried several times and apart from ending up high above Geology in a very scary place, I can not figure out any way to get down to Far Curtain using this route.

I know from personal comm that Mark Wright climbed the Abyss a long time ago. I was told it was free climbed all the way. Effort. Nowt up there bar the bottom of a few run in miners shafts from surface which is no great surprise.

No - never tried traversing about over the top of Geology. Never really looked at it though I will next time.

SamT said:

I know from personal comm that Mark Wright climbed the Abyss a long time ago. I was told it was free climbed all the way. Effort. Nowt up there bar the bottom of a few run in miners shafts from surface which is no great surprise.

No - never tried traversing about over the top of Geology. Never really looked at it though I will next time.

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Thanks Sam. Just before Geology, on a corner if I remember correctly, is a climb up into a short passage which leads into the top of the Geology Pot shaft. There is an exposed traverse across Geology (there used to be some old tat there for protection) which leads to further climbing into a very loose area. But no obvious way of getting down to Far Curtain. And if you try it in reverse, from Far Curtain, it's just as obscure - assuming it's possible?

SamT said:

No - never tried traversing about over the top of Geology. Never really looked at it though I will next time.

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The climb above Geology Pot and the Carnival Aven are two seperate routes.

To locate Carnival Aven stand at the rigging point at the top of Geology and look straight forward but down at an an angle of approx 35 degrees you will notice a hole on the far wall, this is Carnival Aven. In order to rig it, it is possible to descend part way down Geology where if you look closely you will find a natural thread this is at the start of a traverse which goes round to the aven. The easiest way is to descend Geology to the floor and then free climb up the far wall to access it.
Whichever way you decide to access it you will need a 50ft rope to descend down the other side. The anchor point used to be a rusty old piton and a dodgy bolt so also go prepared to place new ancor points.


T pot

Ahhhhhh

so when CoTPD says 'Travese above Geology Pot' it means 'Traverse above the floor of Geology pot' not 'traverse in the roof of GP'.

Cheers T

Correctomundo ! Sam 

Thanks T pot. This explains why I could never make it work. So where does the aven above Geology go, or does it just close down.

Just to confirm Sam's point; yes, Mark Wright did explore the roof of the Abyss in Rowter, very thoroughly. I remember discussing it with him at the time and he was pretty certain nothing had been missed.

I have a vague recollection that somewhere it's written up.  I don't think it's in any of the TSG journals (although Mark has written some good stuff for that journal over the years). It may have been a news item in Descent or somesuch. If I come across it I'll post here where the reference is.

Pitlamp - Have you got an idea of the date when Mark looked at it.  It may be in the TSG logbooks, these are all scanned so if we had an idea of the date, i may be able to find it.

Glenn
The climb above Geology was first identified in or around 1976/77 it was climbed if I remember correctly by George Cooper, Bob Dearman and other members of the EPC. After the initial traverse out above Geology a series of small climbs including one through a boulder choke led to a well decorated chamber. Talking to Mark Wright and Bobby Twogood who had climbed it last year the way into the chamber is blocked.

T pot

I was with Mark when it was climbed - Was around 92, certainly after White River was found.

Stoney Boy said:

I was with Mark when it was climbed - Was around 92, certainly after White River was found.

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Re - is it right that marked climb it free

Some of it from what I remember. There was a fair bit of old iron up there and he placed a few new bolts.

The Aven someone mentions near Geology, I climbed one round there with the late Tony Revell and Andy Tharrat most of it free but with the odd bolt. Struggle to remember who told us to look at it (most likely Keith Bentham). Had a howling gale coming down it but was no obvious way on at the top. EPC had looked up there many moons ago. Interesting place.

We had a look at Carnival Aven last year sometime as it was not very clear in the guidebook where it was exactly. T Pot has now explained everything about it and what happens at the top of Geology Pot perfectly.

As for Rowter Hole, there is some confusion over what the 'Abyss' actually is. Most people, and the guidebook, suggest it is the chamber that I did indeed climb (some of it was free climbed but I did put a few bolts in as far as I remember, it was a long time ago. I don't know who Stoney Boy is but he obviously has a better memory than I do). It did, as far as I remember, end as Stoney Boy suggests.

The old records I think from the 1920's suggest that the 'Abyss' was in fact a large shaft dropping down in the floor of what is now called the 'Abyss', though this has not been entered or even seen in nearly 100 years.

When you get to the bottom of the entrance shaft and look up into the roof (towards the 'Abyss') there are a few stemples visible, high up. This hasn't been climbed as far as I know but it will most likely end in the same way as what we now call the 'Abyss'.

Mind you, you never know. Caves is where you find 'em. I was planning on climbing this soon but if anyone else fancies it, fill your boots.

We are currently digging every Wednesday evening from 7pm onwards at the bottom of the 2 short shafts just beyond Hypothermia. We have dammed and diverted the water to make the descent of the second shaft a little drier.

About 25 years ago myself and other TSG members were digging the horizontal passage out at the bottom of the shafts and had a significant rock fall in front of the digging face. We were in fact digging out the main shaft. There is a survey on the DCC website which shows the location of the dig.

When I say a significant rock fall I mean the biggest rock fall that I have ever heard. A very large amount of rock took a very long time to fall a very long way. It has been suggested that the entrance shaft was driven a lot deeper than the current 69m. After the large rock fall, when we returned to the bottom of the entrance shaft, we were convinced the floor of the shaft had dropped almost 0.5m.  Maybe there is a 10m thick blockage with the rest of the shaft open??

There is only one way to find out.

Come and help us with the dig. We've managed to negotiate a 50% discount on the entrance fee so it's only ?1.00.

Have a look on the Buttered Badgers Potholing Club website for the latest news or give me a call on 07793 114 105 if you would like to join us.

The more the merrier.

Mark Wright   

Hello Mark - now that IS interesting!

When was a youth living in Sheffield in the 70s a bunch of us regularly dug that passage down the 2 mined pitches at the upslope end of the chamber at the base of Rowter's entrance shaft. We had several audible rockfalls happen of the type you describe.

I'm convinced you're right about the shaft continuation and all the water - which can be quite substantial - must go somewhere natural. I agree it's very promising. If I lived a bit nearer I'd offer to help your effort. Best of luck with this excellent project.

Whilst you're in writing mode - did you ever write anything about that climb above East Canal in Giants? If not, how about a few words in this forum? I'm sure it's a very interesting story.

Mark did document this in TSG 14 (p36) "Just for the record"

10-5-90. Climbed by M.A.Wright, D.M.Veale (IND)

Reported by Les Salmon as being 20m to two blind avens. Pointed out to me by John Cordingley as continuing directly above the diving shot line. After 30m a ledge is reached followed by a further 10m climb to a major choke and a small passage completely choked with glutinous mud.

Note: Flood debris was found at the top of the aven, 40m above the normal sump pool level!

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A load of other climbs noted aswel.

During the 80's and 90's we carried out many climbs, mainly in the Peak / Speedwell system and associated caves. These were all documented in various TSG journals as has been mentioned.

With the late Frank Brown and Pete O'Neill of the DCC we were looking at all the caves that had Les Salmon references in the guidebook.  Most of them went. Block Hall in Speedwell, Cliff Cavern and Nettle Pot to name but a few.

I recently reclimbed Aniversary Hall and managed to get a further 20m above the previous limit. This site was totally choked at the top but we did find a very loose bit of passage about 20m up which is still worth another visit. Be carefull though as you could end up getting trapped if you knock anything down.

Anything that was climbed using hand bolting techniques with a premier carbide lamp on your head is worth another look. The extra 20m of vertical passage in Aniversary Hall only took about an hour to bolt up and the other passage was only spotted because I had a Petzl Ultra headlamp at 350 Lumens.

Get yourself a 1300 Lumen Scurion and a Makita cordless and revisit everything that was found in the 80's or before and you stand a good chance of finding something new.

When I got to what I thought was the top of Buxton Water Aven at 57m above sump level over 10 years ago I was using divers Qlights. We used to think these lights were the dogs bollocks but when Jim Lister had a look a few years ago with a more powerful headlamp he found that it wasn't the top at all and continued quite a long way and is still going.   

We free climbed about 40m up in Maggins Rift in the late 80's with poor lighting and didn't find anything so another look in this area could be rewarding with a good lamp.

Victoria Aven is another site that deserves another visit with a good lamp.

A few months ago, Ralph Johnson suggested having a look at what he thought was an unclimbed aven near the entrance of Giants. We had a look at this but it had in fact been climbed. Unfortunately by beer gut wouldn't fit through the tight bit before the aven so we never actually climbed it. There was a line of bolts going up so another look at this by someone a bit thinner would be good as the climb is not recorded anywhere that I have found.

Robbie Shone and I were in Oxlow West Chamber last year with a Petzl Ultra and a Scurion and I'm sure there must be something in the roof that was missed when the Eldon climbed it years ago. I can't remember who climbed the roof of this but maybe somebody on this forum knows.

Anyway, I'm off to the pub now.

Good caving.

Mark Wright 

Regarding Rowter, it might also be worth mentioning that on a digging trip in the 70s, occ took a very long bar to loosen up the boulders at bottom of the Abyss. While doing this, a large portion of the floor dropped by a foot or so without warning, to loud rumbles. Quite brown trouserish. 

Stoneyboy
I think that the climb you and Tony did was Corkscrew Aven which is just after the Far curtain. We were doing a lot of work up there until it finaly closed with the fall of a huge boulder that closed it off (Dr noble required) but before it did we had extended it upwards by approx 8mtrs. The aven was also radio located at the time by D Arvescough and Ron Hammond, they placed a peg which is still there in the dry dale opposite Oxlow House. The theory at the time was that it was heading towards Windy Knoll but who knows.  My opinion is that there are more places in Giants that would show dividends quicker with a little sustained digging.

T pot

Hi Mr T,

No it was not Corkscrew as I remember when you were digging up there. The climb we did was just on the left before Geology and not above it, memory is failing me but you stooped through to the left a fair few meters back and was not that obvious.....

SB