Giants and Rowter

[Pitlamp]

I think much of the climbing in the roof of the big Oxlow chambers was done by Ben (Keith Bentham). He was generally pretty thorough in such things - I remember a tea drinking afternoon in the Chapel (when Peak was flooded) - he described the whole Oxlow escapade, move by move.

Anyway Mark, tell us about the big rift above East Canal.

 

[Mark Wright]

Funnily enough I was just talking to Martin Veale who was with me when I climbed it 20 years ago and he remembers it as being very loose and bouldery at the top. I don't remember it being loose and bouldery at all, I was convinced it was fairly solid. The description in the TSG journal as previously posted is a bit brief.

We were using crap lights so get yourself back there and re-climb it. All the bolts are in and they are only 20 years old!!! From what I remember I may have used stainless HKD anchors so they should be OK. Getting started from swimming in the canal was the hardest part. 

Mark Wright

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for that Mark.

I'll let someone else have a look up there. I've done my bit to try and find a way on at East Canal, in the downhill direction; unfortunately that healed up as well.

What was that model of Makita drill you were recommending? I'm still using the same Bosch as that first batch of four you and I first got donkeys years ago. Remember how we came back from the pub and gleefully drilled holes all over the hut, just because we could?! Happy days eh? Mine's actually still going but it's getting a bit tired. If you can offer any advice about something better I'd be very grateful.

 

[Glenn]

This has turned into a really good subject. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed and resolved my original queries (and more!)

In the late '80's and early '90's we used to have evening trips into Derbyshire straight from work, looking at things that most Saturday trips would not bother with. One last query from that time is about the Crab Walk.

We attempted to traverse the Crab Walk at high level (going down stream). Starting from the traverse where you leave the high level Crab Walk to go to the Windpipe, we dropped back into the top of the Crab Walk and traversed (using mostly friction) as far as we could, staying as high as could. After some time, we were stopped as the passage became too wide. From my notes (and memory) it was as though we had entered a small shaft, which was very drippy. We could not get close enough to look up it, and we said we would return and bolt it, but we never did....

 

[T pot 2]

Stoney Boy
The climb before Geology would be in North Rift. Wayn Ricket and others also had spectacular dig at the base of it in the stream. I have notes an their dig somewhere.

Glenn
The top of the Crab Walk is traversable for most of its length. Start just after the small climb down after Chert Hall where the passage turns left. Climb and traverse until you reach the ceiling and progress forward and yo will soon come to a crawling sized passage on the right (if you follow this you can access the upper series) carry on until at the same level and you will eventually find a large ledge on the left hand side (2' x 8') this is where you either have to climb down or slip through a slot to continue the traverse. If you drop down you will be at the Razor Edge Cascade. Through the slot it becomes wide and tricky but there are bolts and some pitons in place (look for orange 10mm tapes) follow your nose and you will come to small tube on the right which closes up in a short distance the roof starts to descend here to a point where you are above the Comic Act Cascade again you will find another passage on the right which again closes down. Carry on with the descending roof until you reach a point where its possible to jump back into the stream just above Great Relief passage. This is about all there is to see in the roof above the Crab Walk unless you count the numerous bedding plane slots that connect with the upper series i.e. Giants Windpipe, Handshake Passage, No way Passage etc.
There is an interesting spot at the end of the Great Relief Passage  back above right before you turn to access the Eating House. There is a bedding that you can enter but it is of small dimensions. If conditions are right in the cave a sound not unsimilar to the air coming through the Giants Windpipe may be heard. Smoke test results showed no connection to the upper series or Maggins rift.


T pot

 

[Stoney Boy]

Mr T,

That jogs my memory a little and sounds about right. When we climbed up there that was the morning after drinking eleventyone pints of Tetleys in the Peak hotel and still went and did something next day but I digress; I still recall the very strong draft.

We bolted a few around that time - The one above the upstream pitches in Winnats Head springs to mind - Last I heard someone was attempting to dig past the boulders........ :halo:

 

[Pitlamp]

Assuming we're talking about the same place the dig at the base of North Rift was initially done by persons unknown, then self, then Ben, then Stockport Caving Group really got to grips with it and passed the choked sump to a short extension ending at bad boulders. No-one has been through the sump for quiite a while as it's a big bailing job, best attempted in mega drought.

 

[Stoney Boy]

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=1340.msg11306#msg11306

For Glenn......

 

[Mark Wright]

Pitlamp,

I'm amazed that you still have the Bosch drill. Wasn't that 1986?

There are a couple of Makita drills that are worth considering.

I've just recently managed to get sponsorship for our Mulu trip which leaves in 4 weeks.

They have given us 3 x Makita BHR202RFE 18v tools. This model has a chisel function and weighs 3.5kg.

As a good all round tool for bolting, capping and chiselling this is a good buy. They come with 2 x 14.4v 3.0 AH batteries and have a 22 min. charge time with the supplied charger.

I find them a bit front heavy for long overhanging bolt climbs but no worse that the Bosch GBH24VR which you have.

If you're after a tool mainly for bolting then the Makita BHR162RFE is the ultimate machine and quite a bit lighter at 2.1kg with most of the weight at the trigger end. They also come with 2 x 14.4v 3.0 AH batteries and the same charger. I have got rid of the handle and depth measure and have it on a Mammut bandolier. I generally get at least 20 bolts (8mm HKD/10mm hole diameter). You get a few more with the BHR202.

I made the mistake of getting some extra batteries which were Makita copies. They were about 1/2 the price but didn't last very long before they packed in. We used to have a Latin saying at one of the rope access companies I worked for; Vile Emptum Bis Emptum. Buy Cheep, Buy Twice.

I also managed to get sponsorship from Bosch back in 2005 for the Mulu expedition. They gave us the latest version of the GBH24 which has a battery life indicator. This is still going strong. Its a bit heavier than the one you have. They also gave us the 36v version. I used this for the climb I did on the 400m overhanging face of Gunung Benarat. Lots of bolts but very front heavy. I never got to the entrance I was aiming for about 300m up. We accidentaly found Moon Cave about 60m up. This turned out to be 7km long. By the time we had finished exploring this and connecting it to 2 other caves we had a total length of 51km. Loads of avens left to climb in this system.

We ended up selling this and buying the Makita BHR162. Never looked back.

The BHR162 is a very popular machine. BT have just ordered 1000's of them and as a result Makita won't have any in UK stock until April this year. That's why we ended up with the BHR202's.

Beggers can't be choosers.

If you are after a BHR202 I can probably get you a good deal.

Mark Wright

 

[Pitlamp]

Excellent information Mark - many thanks.

 

[JAM]

Mark, in order to make te BHR 202 more balanced, could you not somehow attach to the rear of the drill a balance beam made of threaded bar? This would allow you to add a threaded weight to the bar  which could be moved along the bar to balance different weight drill bits or chisels...
Just an idea...

Rich

 

[SamT]

errrr - so the drill ends up even heavier than before yeah    :blink:

just what you want when your holding it above your head at full stretch for the 15th bolt placement.

(or am I missing something).

 

[JAM]

Sam, if you're holding something that feels more in balance, it often feels lighter, even though its not. Like I said It's just an idea. If Mark (who the comment was addressed to) thinks It's a bad idea, so be it, your opinion in the mater is of no concern to me.

 

[SamT]

Fairy snuff  :kiss2:

 

[Littlemig]

'The angle of the dangle must always equal the tilt of the kilt'!

 

[Mrs Trellis]

Just as a postscript I think Jim Kinsman was the first to climb into the roof of East chamber in Oxlow and recognise the geological link to Nettle.

Btw - If anyone remembers Geoff (Jeff?) Dobson from the mid-60's Eldon he came to the village carol singing in't George - took one look at Wacker and legged it quick!

 

[pwhole]

I made my first visit to Rowter last week and thoroughly enjoyed myself - an awesome place with vast amounts of useful and puzzling evidence - will have to return. Had a quick look at the dig whilst we were there (good work), and looks very promising - may be able to offer some help there at some point. In the meantime, here's the first set of photos I made, which may be useful:

http://www.pwhole.com/photo_galleries/RowterHole/index.html