• CSCC Newsletter - May 2024

    Available now. Includes details of upcoming CSCC Annual General Meeting 10th May 2024

    Click here for more info

foot ascenders

Alkapton

Member
Im on about the things that go on your wellies, not the things with foot loops.

Are they any use?  Does the rope always go through them OK?  Do they solve the problem of not always being able to grab the rope between your feet when using foot loops?  I'm even half thinking of using trainers instead of wellies because I can't feel the rope with wellies
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Fabulous for long pitches; hardly worth putting it on for short stuff; if you're doing short stuff and have problems with the rope running through your croll simply tie your rope bag to the bottom such that it loads the rope and pulls it through as you ascend. Pantins (foot jammers) also require a bit of pfaff at rebelays/deviations but on the whole are worth their weight in chocolate money.

BTW, if you are planning on using one on the so-called pitch in Draenen then my coffee has already been spluttered across the room.
 

SamT

Moderator
I think your about to get a string of replies telling you how good they are.

I'm first - yes, they are awesome, many advantages, the main one being the improved efficiency of ascent due to the rope being pulled taught through the croll on every upward step, even when you are only just off the deck.

lots of discussion on UKcaving in the past (have you bothered to use the search feature and look up 'pantin'

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,6409.0.html
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,748.0.html
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,140.0.html
just for starters - I seem to remember more
 

miketa

New member
Despite slagging off the latest model Petzl ascender, I've also just started using a foot ascender. Same comments, not worth it on short pitches, a minor hassle at rebelays, but excellent on longer pitches. The only thing I couldn't quite decide was whether it put a twisting stress on my knee, or whether that was just age. Also it can be a replacement for the spare third jammer that we all carry (right?)
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
... except it's not PPE `cos the spring is very slack (by design) and hence shouldn't be relied upon in safety critical scenarios.
 

Alkapton

Member
cap 'n chris said:
BTW, if you are planning on using one on the so-called pitch in Draenen then my coffee has already been spluttered across the room.

Hee heee,  hardly need bother with foot loops for that one!    No, its long ones, where sometimes rope don't slide nice and I end up pulling the rope through the chest ascender by hand - which is stupid and wasts energy and time
 

paul

Moderator
cap 'n chris said:
... except it's not PPE `cos the spring is very slack (by design) and hence shouldn't be relied upon in safety critical scenarios.

True - but you can attach a krab through the holes below the cam to prevent it opening like the old handleless Clogs used to do. Still a faff but doable.
 

robjones

New member
Was very sceptical about Petzl Pantin til I borrowed one - then bought one for myself asap. Worth having  even on short pitches - 40' / 50'.
 

Alkapton

Member
I'm almost convinced...  Would it be possible to use one where I'm told one cannot do srt, namely to get out of Llanelly Quarry Pot?  Only reason I've never been there is everyone says I'll have a lot of trouble getting out especially if I'm dragging rope(s) back up.  That would be the killer application for me
 

NigR

New member
Alkapton said:
Would it be possible to use one where I'm told one cannot do srt, namely to get out of Llanelly Quarry Pot? 

Possible but not advisable. Very awkward pitch. Don't do it! Don't buy one!
 

Alkapton

Member
You've convinced me, Llanellly QP entrance is not a pitch, its 45 degree tight bastard rift you have to stay high in, not my favorite thing.  I know some use a rope for a hand line to get out.  Any extra advantage must be good.    I'm never fast but dragging rope bag _really_ slows me, so it must be worth a try.
 

Sally-J

New member
I've no idea of the particular pitch being referring to but I'm not sure a Pantin would stay on the rope in that situation.
 

Joel Corrigan

New member
Hmm, the danger of these forums is that people's personal experiences and opinions are not necessarily particularly valid when it comes to the truth!  Mine, though, is no different, so rather than say "they're great" or "they're rubbish" here is some food for thought.

I made a poor-man's pantin (out of a croll & webbing) in the mid-nineties during an expedition to the Picos with some Spanish cavers.  It was fairly routine in europe at the time to do this sort of thing.  Finally Petzl caught up with us!

In my opinion, if you're an occasional vertical caver (which is likely if you're only active in South Wales?) then I wouldn't bother.  But, if you do consider yourself to be a vertical caver then you obviously realise that the pantin has become pretty indispensable by now.  However, I believe that you need to learn to cope without one in all situations before you consider buying one as they can be slightly tricky to master.  In fact, I refuse (in a nice way!) to let anyone I train touch a pantin until they've been dangling around for a while as once you get used to them it's difficult to let go.  Kind of like allowing a baby Jedi to play with a lightsaber before they have mastered the skill of removing maiden's knickers from afar using the force......

They don't always feed through (mud, require a few metres of rope below to give a bit of weight etc....), need to be taken off below deviations, need to be removed for general caving to prevent snaggage/damage/filling with mud.  But they come into their own on long pitches, tight pitches, technical pitches, passing obstacles with heavy bags, etc...  I found it to be a near life-saver in the past when I did my knee in a long way from surface: with a standard foot loop arrangement I'd have been a lot more screwed.

In Llanelli Quarry Pot beware of little problems that they don't mention in the books: accidentally attaching pantin to the donkey's dick/haul cord when it's hanging off your harness & ratcheting your foot up into your arse, for example!  I have seen people get into the highly comical position of a flying angel/chocolate starfish (!) when they've neglected to remove their pantin at rebelays.  For this alone I think they're awesome bits of gear!

So in summary I'm all in favour of them but not for every situation. And surely you've gotta be able to avoid using trainers underground when you're on the ropes? Can't be a good idea.....




 

francis

New member
I love my Pantin and bring it on virtually every vertical trip I go on. Sadly the strap broke on the last trip I was on and it needs fixing :(.

Rope-walking is much much faster than regular frogging, and I also find frogging more efficient with the Pantin than without. I also find it very useful for tight pitchheads etc.

Francis
 
Top