Poll

Is it right or wrong to enforce Covid-19 vaccinations on care home workers?

Right to enforce vaccination
Wrong to enforce vaccination
Undecided

Author Topic: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?  (Read 2245 times)

Offline Speleofish

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2021, 12:08:30 pm »
I agree flu is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. However every year there are between 25 and 30,000 deaths attributed to influenza and pneumonia - thus, over a decade, far more deaths due to flu than covid (to date).

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2021, 12:15:11 pm »
My 88 year-old aunt died last night from lymphoma, but she didn't have Covid, and around 9000 people die a week in total - so the percentage dying from Covid is quite small in that regard:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/3september2021

However, the deaths are less important than the treatment people may require to keep them alive if they catch Covid, which is a far higher number, especially among the old or infirm, and the one we need to worry about, as they'll have to be transferred to hospitals.

Personally I don't understand why anyone wouldn't take any certified vaccine unless they had a very obvious health condition that disallowed it. It's a no-brainer - and it's free. If you go travelling in the far east you'll have to have at least three, and I've not heard many hippies screaming with outrage in the past that they can't go surfing in Bali, because they'd just have the shots and get on with it. Would they turn down the Covid one on principle?

I know some vaccines in the past have screwed up, and I'm not saying they're a magic bullet, because you have to be healthy too, and that's people's own responsibility. The ugly truth that no-one wants to discuss is the shocking state of the average adult person's health, which is by far the biggest cause of serious Covid if infected. I know everyone's read of super-fit people who've died from Covid, but they are very much a tiny minority. If I walk down my street to the town centre, five mins away, I will be immediately surrounded by fat people - and I mean the majority. I could shoot video to prove it if it didn't breach privacy laws.
Sorry for your loss    :down:
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Offline NewStuff

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2021, 12:25:09 pm »
I agree flu is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. However every year there are between 25 and 30,000 deaths attributed to influenza and pneumonia - thus, over a decade, far more deaths due to flu than covid (to date).
And Covid has rammed home how important basic cleaning, hygiene and masks are in flu season. Almost no-one (comparatively) got it last winter.
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Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2021, 12:38:19 pm »
Us oldies need to have the flu vaccine every year because the virus, like all viruses, constantly mutates. So far, the flu virus hasn't  produced a strain as deadly as Covid 19 but the latter, as we've seen, apart from being more dangerous has greater potential to mutate into an even more deadly variety. That's one of the main reasons why it's imperative to stop it from spreading.

We're in unique circumstances with this pandemic because of the huge influence of social media, and the absolute Sh*tstorm of misinformation flooding the internet. It's worth asking those who are reluctant to have the jab, what information caused them to adopt this view?
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2021, 12:42:51 pm »
Probably this one, but she does stick her big tits out a lot and wears false eyelashes too, so she probably is an authority, unlike that weird creepy old Fauci guy. You may feel like you've taken crystal meth after this four-minute excursion:


Offline Tomferry

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2021, 12:49:20 pm »
 :lol: she is one dam ugly cow I have better in the field opposite  my house  she needs leaving in a mine

Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2021, 12:56:17 pm »
Most, if not all, of the so-called reputable purveyors of anti-vaxx nonsense are doing it to make money from all the poor suckers they pull in to donate to their cause. Here's a doctor -
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 01:10:28 pm by tony from suffolk »
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Offline royfellows

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2021, 02:04:00 pm »
This kind of stuff does challenge the right to free speech. problem is that people listen to this nonsense, as indeed there were ready customers for that memory stick with mystic powers or whatever. Then of course there are the conspiracy theories.
I think that some issues dont have any easy answer.

I find it interesting just how far back the practice of vaccination goes, a quick look on Wiki is quite enlightening.  Of course though, there will be a lot of people who would rather listen to some idiot than take a few minutes to do honest research.
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Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2021, 02:09:07 pm »
This kind of stuff does challenge the right to free speech. problem is that people listen to this nonsense, as indeed there were ready customers for that memory stick with mystic powers or whatever. Then of course there are the conspiracy theories.
I think that some issues dont have any easy answer.

I find it interesting just how far back the practice of vaccination goes, a quick look on Wiki is quite enlightening.  Of course though, there will be a lot of people who would rather listen to some idiot than take a few minutes to do honest research.

The people actually qualified to tell you the truth can’t tell you the truth because they’re part of the conspiracy not to tell you the truth. Therefore you must trust people utterly unqualified to tell you the truth to tell you the truth. Say all the utterly unqualified people.
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Offline royfellows

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2021, 02:11:27 pm »
I need to get my mind round that Tony
 :lol:
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Offline AR

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2021, 02:14:41 pm »
I agree flu is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. However every year there are between 25 and 30,000 deaths attributed to influenza and pneumonia - thus, over a decade, far more deaths due to flu than covid (to date).

I don't see this as a valid comparison. We only have 18 months worth of mortality data for covid so you don't have an actual yearly average mortality, I'm sure one of the statisticians on here could tell you how many years .I don't think even the experts would care to try and extrapolate what we might see over the course of a decade, at least until we've seen what happens this coming winter with a largely vaccinated population and booster jabs for the most vulnerable. After that, we may be able to make some guesses about the relative dangers of covid and flu going forward.
Secondly, we now have a reasonable idea of the actual amount of covid cases floating around at any one time thanks to mass testing, whereas with flu rates in the population it's much more like the beginning of the covid pandemic where it was all guesswork based on the number of people getting hospitalised. In the average year, roughly how many flu infections are there and how many of these lead to the suffer ending up in hospital or dying? There will be papers giving guesses out there but without mass testing for flu, they're just that.
Thirdly, covid is significantly more transmissible than flu; even with lockdowns, home working, mask-wearing and sanitising it's run riot. If there was the same level of disease precaution over a flu winter, what impact would that have on infection rates and hence mortality?
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Offline NewStuff

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2021, 03:55:27 pm »
Thirdly, covid is significantly more transmissible than flu; even with lockdowns, home working, mask-wearing and sanitising it's run riot. If there was the same level of disease precaution over a flu winter, what impact would that have on infection rates and hence mortality?

We've already seen it. A huge reduction in numbers. Precautions against transmission of Covid19 has the same sort of protections against the 'Flu. I suspect masks will be normal in winter for a lot of younger people, as is the case in Asia currently.
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2021, 04:42:53 pm »
News Update Guys !. My wife who is a nurse has just had an email a few minutes ago that ALL NHS staff are to have the third CV19 booster vaccine and it will be the Pfizer version unless for medical reason you are unable to have that version then you will be offered the AZ version. I wonder if the NHS got a better deal on the Pfizer one  :lol:
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2021, 04:44:42 pm »
Thirdly, covid is significantly more transmissible than flu; even with lockdowns, home working, mask-wearing and sanitising it's run riot. If there was the same level of disease precaution over a flu winter, what impact would that have on infection rates and hence mortality?

We've already seen it. A huge reduction in numbers. Precautions against transmission of Covid19 has the same sort of protections against the 'Flu. I suspect masks will be normal in winter for a lot of younger people, as is the case in Asia currently.

Worth thinking about though are the reductions due to the weather  :-\? as the flu virus goes away in the warmer months we will see over the next few months   :thumbsup:
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Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2021, 05:49:47 pm »
News Update Guys !. My wife who is a nurse has just had an email a few minutes ago that ALL NHS staff are to have the third CV19 booster vaccine and it will be the Pfizer version unless for medical reason you are unable to have that version then you will be offered the AZ version. I wonder if the NHS got a better deal on the Pfizer one  :lol:
There's evidence that the Pfizer version works well as a booster.
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2021, 05:51:45 pm »
News Update Guys !. My wife who is a nurse has just had an email a few minutes ago that ALL NHS staff are to have the third CV19 booster vaccine and it will be the Pfizer version unless for medical reason you are unable to have that version then you will be offered the AZ version. I wonder if the NHS got a better deal on the Pfizer one  :lol:
There's evidence that the Pfizer version works well as a booster.

Was better for me I had lots of issues with the first AZ one after lots of messing about they gave me the Pfizer as a second and no problems at all
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2021, 06:59:29 pm »
keep on voting guys a picture is developing  :thumbsup:
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Offline PeteHall

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2021, 08:04:37 pm »
This kind of stuff does challenge the right to free speech.

Very surprised to see that from you Roy and I hope you don't actually mean it.

Allowing the state to dictate what you can or can't say is a bloody dangerous proposition that would have far worse and far longer lasting consequences for humanity than covid ever will.

Similar in fact, to the state mandating medical procedures.

Give them an emergency power in a crisis, don't ever expect them to give if back once the crisis is over.

Freedom of choice, freedom of thought and freedom of speech are critical to a free society. Any infringement of these basic freedoms must be resisted at all costs regardless of the short-term crisis we currently see.

Anyone advocating limiting free speech, or mandating vaccination "for the greater good" should take a long hard look at themselves and ask  where this path leads to next.

Considering how little trust people seem to have in the current government, it is astounding that so many seem happy to hand over such basic freedoms!

Do you really want Boris (or Kier for that matter) deciding what you are allowed to say, or what drug you should be injected with?

If that's what you lot want, good f$#king luck to you!


Offline royfellows

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2021, 08:57:03 pm »
There is no absolute right to free speech as it is.

It is a criminal offence to preach hatred towards a specific group of people, ethnic, orientation, etc. Similarly racism, or advocating violence. What I am trying to say here is that you cant say whatever you like as things currently stand.

I think one has to seriously consider whether people who spread lies and misinformation on something as serious as vaccination in the midst of a pandemic should be allowed to do so. That's my view and I stand on it.
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Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2021, 09:38:44 pm »
I think one has to seriously consider whether people who spread lies and misinformation on something as serious as vaccination in the midst of a pandemic should be allowed to do so.

Was it not the case that the original WHO definition of Pandemic didn't fit the CV-19 agenda so they re-defined it so we now are in a global Pandemic. I vaguely recall that even now we aren't technically in one, by correct definition(s).

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2021, 10:10:37 pm »
Quote
Give them an emergency power in a crisis, don't ever expect them to give if back once the crisis is over.

It's now going to be "Achtung papers, boyo!" in Wales from October.  Slippery slope....

Offline pwhole

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2021, 10:23:04 pm »
It is also the most incompetent British government in living memory - possibly in history. So they're unlikely to do 'Police State' any better than anything else they've attempted. Also they've de-funded the police to the extent that they can barely solve crime any more. So I doubt the police will be that keen to become the Gestapo over British citizens. They do have to live on the same streets as the rest of us, and there's a lot more of us. They could always subcontract it out to a newly-formed company run by an ex-councillor and some of his thug mates I guess.

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2021, 10:30:13 pm »
And what is the next, more competent, government going to do with their newfound power?

A fundamental change to our freedom will not be limited the current government.

Malaysia, for example, still operates emergency powers (such as detention without trial and mandatory ID cards), when the communist insurgency that triggered those powers ended in 1960.

Offline mikem

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2021, 11:47:26 pm »
The data on covid is still massively inaccurate, as most of those being infected also aren't being tested (the only semi reliable source for comparison is still deaths). It just happens to have more data available than other viruses. & flu didn't get hold last winter because people were socially distancing / majority of the vulnerable just weren't going out.

Offline droid

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Re: Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2021, 02:17:13 am »

A fundamental change to our freedom will not be limited the current government.



I think that's unnecessarily pessimistic.

Coercive 'emergency measures' have in the past been rescinded when no longer needed. So to me, this argument is irrellevant. *Bugger, can't get the red line from under that last word*
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