Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?

Is it right or wrong to enforce Covid-19 vaccinations on care home workers?

  • Total voters
    58
Status
Not open for further replies.
PeteHall

PeteHall

Moderator
tony from suffolk said:
It's only a matter of time until covid vaccination's compulsory for anyone, NHS or other, who tends to the elderly and vulnerable.
Click to expand...

What about flu (or other) vaccines? Should these be mandatory too? Where do you draw the line? How long does the mandate last?

We seem to have got total tunnel vision here. All anyone seems to care about is Covid. We've all got to die of something, some time and for most of us, it won't be Covid.  o_O
 
S

Speleofish

Active member
I think that makes the point perfectly. Flu may not be the threat Covid is, but over the last decade has killed at least as many as Covid in the UK. Few people have seriously contemplated making 'flu vaccination mandatory in the NHS - partly because 'flu jabs are much less effective than covid jabs but also because there would be huge resistance from the staff.
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
My 88 year-old aunt died last night from lymphoma, but she didn't have Covid, and around 9000 people die a week in total - so the percentage dying from Covid is quite small in that regard:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/3september2021

However, the deaths are less important than the treatment people may require to keep them alive if they catch Covid, which is a far higher number, especially among the old or infirm, and the one we need to worry about, as they'll have to be transferred to hospitals.

Personally I don't understand why anyone wouldn't take any certified vaccine unless they had a very obvious health condition that disallowed it. It's a no-brainer - and it's free. If you go travelling in the far east you'll have to have at least three, and I've not heard many hippies screaming with outrage in the past that they can't go surfing in Bali, because they'd just have the shots and get on with it. Would they turn down the Covid one on principle?

I know some vaccines in the past have screwed up, and I'm not saying they're a magic bullet, because you have to be healthy too, and that's people's own responsibility. The ugly truth that no-one wants to discuss is the shocking state of the average adult person's health, which is by far the biggest cause of serious Covid if infected. I know everyone's read of super-fit people who've died from Covid, but they are very much a tiny minority. If I walk down my street to the town centre, five mins away, I will be immediately surrounded by fat people - and I mean the majority. I could shoot video to prove it if it didn't breach privacy laws.
 
S

Speleofish

Active member
I agree flu is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. However every year there are between 25 and 30,000 deaths attributed to influenza and pneumonia - thus, over a decade, far more deaths due to flu than covid (to date).
 
Paul Marvin

Paul Marvin

Member
pwhole said:
My 88 year-old aunt died last night from lymphoma, but she didn't have Covid, and around 9000 people die a week in total - so the percentage dying from Covid is quite small in that regard:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/3september2021

However, the deaths are less important than the treatment people may require to keep them alive if they catch Covid, which is a far higher number, especially among the old or infirm, and the one we need to worry about, as they'll have to be transferred to hospitals.

Personally I don't understand why anyone wouldn't take any certified vaccine unless they had a very obvious health condition that disallowed it. It's a no-brainer - and it's free. If you go travelling in the far east you'll have to have at least three, and I've not heard many hippies screaming with outrage in the past that they can't go surfing in Bali, because they'd just have the shots and get on with it. Would they turn down the Covid one on principle?

I know some vaccines in the past have screwed up, and I'm not saying they're a magic bullet, because you have to be healthy too, and that's people's own responsibility. The ugly truth that no-one wants to discuss is the shocking state of the average adult person's health, which is by far the biggest cause of serious Covid if infected. I know everyone's read of super-fit people who've died from Covid, but they are very much a tiny minority. If I walk down my street to the town centre, five mins away, I will be immediately surrounded by fat people - and I mean the majority. I could shoot video to prove it if it didn't breach privacy laws.
Click to expand...
Sorry for your loss    :cautious:
 
NewStuff

NewStuff

New member
Speleofish said:
I agree flu is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. However every year there are between 25 and 30,000 deaths attributed to influenza and pneumonia - thus, over a decade, far more deaths due to flu than covid (to date).
Click to expand...
And Covid has rammed home how important basic cleaning, hygiene and masks are in flu season. Almost no-one (comparatively) got it last winter.
 
tony from suffolk

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
Us oldies need to have the flu vaccine every year because the virus, like all viruses, constantly mutates. So far, the flu virus hasn't  produced a strain as deadly as Covid 19 but the latter, as we've seen, apart from being more dangerous has greater potential to mutate into an even more deadly variety. That's one of the main reasons why it's imperative to stop it from spreading.

We're in unique circumstances with this pandemic because of the huge influence of social media, and the absolute Sh*tstorm of misinformation flooding the internet. It's worth asking those who are reluctant to have the jab, what information caused them to adopt this view?
 
tomferry

tomferry

Well-known member
:LOL: she is one dam ugly cow I have better in the field opposite  my house  she needs leaving in a mine
 
royfellows

royfellows

Well-known member
This kind of stuff does challenge the right to free speech. problem is that people listen to this nonsense, as indeed there were ready customers for that memory stick with mystic powers or whatever. Then of course there are the conspiracy theories.
I think that some issues dont have any easy answer.

I find it interesting just how far back the practice of vaccination goes, a quick look on Wiki is quite enlightening.  Of course though, there will be a lot of people who would rather listen to some idiot than take a few minutes to do honest research.
 
tony from suffolk

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
royfellows said:
This kind of stuff does challenge the right to free speech. problem is that people listen to this nonsense, as indeed there were ready customers for that memory stick with mystic powers or whatever. Then of course there are the conspiracy theories.
I think that some issues dont have any easy answer.

I find it interesting just how far back the practice of vaccination goes, a quick look on Wiki is quite enlightening.  Of course though, there will be a lot of people who would rather listen to some idiot than take a few minutes to do honest research.
Click to expand...

The people actually qualified to tell you the truth can?t tell you the truth because they?re part of the conspiracy not to tell you the truth. Therefore you must trust people utterly unqualified to tell you the truth to tell you the truth. Say all the utterly unqualified people.
 
AR

AR

Well-known member
Speleofish said:
I agree flu is nowhere near as dangerous as Covid. However every year there are between 25 and 30,000 deaths attributed to influenza and pneumonia - thus, over a decade, far more deaths due to flu than covid (to date).
Click to expand...

I don't see this as a valid comparison. We only have 18 months worth of mortality data for covid so you don't have an actual yearly average mortality, I'm sure one of the statisticians on here could tell you how many years .I don't think even the experts would care to try and extrapolate what we might see over the course of a decade, at least until we've seen what happens this coming winter with a largely vaccinated population and booster jabs for the most vulnerable. After that, we may be able to make some guesses about the relative dangers of covid and flu going forward.
Secondly, we now have a reasonable idea of the actual amount of covid cases floating around at any one time thanks to mass testing, whereas with flu rates in the population it's much more like the beginning of the covid pandemic where it was all guesswork based on the number of people getting hospitalised. In the average year, roughly how many flu infections are there and how many of these lead to the suffer ending up in hospital or dying? There will be papers giving guesses out there but without mass testing for flu, they're just that.
Thirdly, covid is significantly more transmissible than flu; even with lockdowns, home working, mask-wearing and sanitising it's run riot. If there was the same level of disease precaution over a flu winter, what impact would that have on infection rates and hence mortality?
 
NewStuff

NewStuff

New member
AR said:
Thirdly, covid is significantly more transmissible than flu; even with lockdowns, home working, mask-wearing and sanitising it's run riot. If there was the same level of disease precaution over a flu winter, what impact would that have on infection rates and hence mortality?
Click to expand...

We've already seen it. A huge reduction in numbers. Precautions against transmission of Covid19 has the same sort of protections against the 'Flu. I suspect masks will be normal in winter for a lot of younger people, as is the case in Asia currently.
 
Paul Marvin

Paul Marvin

Member
News Update Guys !. My wife who is a nurse has just had an email a few minutes ago that ALL NHS staff are to have the third CV19 booster vaccine and it will be the Pfizer version unless for medical reason you are unable to have that version then you will be offered the AZ version. I wonder if the NHS got a better deal on the Pfizer one  :LOL:
 
Paul Marvin

Paul Marvin

Member
NewStuff said:
AR said:
Thirdly, covid is significantly more transmissible than flu; even with lockdowns, home working, mask-wearing and sanitising it's run riot. If there was the same level of disease precaution over a flu winter, what impact would that have on infection rates and hence mortality?
Click to expand...

We've already seen it. A huge reduction in numbers. Precautions against transmission of Covid19 has the same sort of protections against the 'Flu. I suspect masks will be normal in winter for a lot of younger people, as is the case in Asia currently.
Click to expand...

Worth thinking about though are the reductions due to the weather  :-\? as the flu virus goes away in the warmer months we will see over the next few months  (y)
 
tony from suffolk

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
Paul Marvin said:
News Update Guys !. My wife who is a nurse has just had an email a few minutes ago that ALL NHS staff are to have the third CV19 booster vaccine and it will be the Pfizer version unless for medical reason you are unable to have that version then you will be offered the AZ version. I wonder if the NHS got a better deal on the Pfizer one  :LOL:
Click to expand...
There's evidence that the Pfizer version works well as a booster.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top