nickwilliams
Well-known member
Can someone tell me what is wrong with being elitist?
Nick.
Nick.
nickwilliams said:Can someone tell me what is wrong with being elitist?
Nick.
Matt J said:Similarly, how do people feel about opening up new entrances past sumps - such as at Wigmore..?
nickwilliams said:Can someone tell me what is wrong with being elitist?
Nick.
Duncan Price said:- no one seems to object too much to bypassing sumps.
Ali Garman said:From a factual perspective, since the current land owner purchased the land from the Coal Authority it has been his stated intention that the cave have a single entrance. As recently as last September the landowner re-iterated this position and was EXTREMELY annoyed by the actions of two individuals who were trying to re-open the exact entrance mentioned in this thread.
old-timer said:I see that much-worn phrase, 'duly elected members of the caving community'.... ho hum. The landowner probably doesn't care that they are elected, by a self-styled 'community' seeking to establish rights and accesses he probably isn't interested in, have no legal basis and he has no particular reason to give, in many cases.
old-timer said:cavers are probably in a better position than say, 4x4 users and trailbike riders, who have what they regard as a 'code of practice' for those who follow it, but are still largely regarded as a general, and sometimes destructive, minority nuisance which a high proportion of both working and recreational outdoor users would happily do without. But, cavers are still a specialised minority who don't enjoy unmitigated public support, not by any means.
old-timer said:comments about specific groups and free exchange of information aren't new, either. I first came to Mendips 30-odd years ago, and never did much more because I simply couldn't be bothered with the small number of controlling groups who appeared at times, to be more interested in playing what was then referred to as 'cave monopoly' and obstructing each other, and certainly gave little sign in being interested in strays from the North. Doesn't sound as though that has changed a great deal.
graham said:No offence but if that was your land, who would you believe, the duly elected representatives of the caving community or some random bloke who turns up on your land, starts drilling away and argues with you when you attempt to stop him?
NigR said:graham said:No offence but if that was your land, who would you believe, the duly elected representatives of the caving community or some random bloke who turns up on your land, starts drilling away and argues with you when you attempt to stop him?
Graham,
I am not blaming the landowner for believing what he has been told by these 'duly elected representatives of the caving community', just making the point that he has been cleverly manipulated by them from the outset.
Also, please allow me to correct a couple of your factual misconceptions. Firstly, I was incredibly polite to the landowner and did not argue with him at all despite his aggressive attitude. Secondly, he did not attempt to stop us from drilling as we had already finished having run out of battery power.
Secondly, I accept your clarification, but, speaking as a landowner myself (though I don't own any caves) if I found someone bang to rights on my land doing something that I had already specifically prohibited then they'd be lucky if all I did was shout at them.
Hughie said:Secondly, I accept your clarification, but, speaking as a landowner myself (though I don't own any caves) if I found someone bang to rights on my land doing something that I had already specifically prohibited then they'd be lucky if all I did was shout at them.
As another landowner - I'd have to agree with you. And I would probably be quite unhappy for quite a long time.
wookey said:One other consideration of a Draenen second entrance is that opening it up/allowing its use might cause the survey to be finished, and perhaps rather more significantly, published. That isn't a sufficient reason in and of itself, of course, but it is a consideration.