A simple question - How many Mendip Caves are on Access Land?
- Thread starter Madness
- Start date
Simon Wilson
New member
The matter of scale is important on both sides.
On Mendip it boils down to having to do a bit of paperwork to retain two padlocks.
I think that there are people who have no idea of the scale of what it means in the North. People seem to think that in the North the CRoW issue is about permits. The areas where there are permits systems are quite a small proportion of the whole of the karst in the North. If you look at the Eurospeleo website and look at the caves that are being rigged it will show that the modern caver's perception of what is the main Dales caving area has become limited to the western fringe. Cavers seem to have forgotten that there is a vast expanse of karst to the east and north of the Three Peaks area. Part of the reason for that is that cavers can get permission in the West of the Dales. There are vast areas where you can't get permission for all sorts of reasons.
To compare scales; it's two padlocks in the South compared to several hundred square miles of karst in the North.
On Mendip it boils down to having to do a bit of paperwork to retain two padlocks.
I think that there are people who have no idea of the scale of what it means in the North. People seem to think that in the North the CRoW issue is about permits. The areas where there are permits systems are quite a small proportion of the whole of the karst in the North. If you look at the Eurospeleo website and look at the caves that are being rigged it will show that the modern caver's perception of what is the main Dales caving area has become limited to the western fringe. Cavers seem to have forgotten that there is a vast expanse of karst to the east and north of the Three Peaks area. Part of the reason for that is that cavers can get permission in the West of the Dales. There are vast areas where you can't get permission for all sorts of reasons.
To compare scales; it's two padlocks in the South compared to several hundred square miles of karst in the North.
Simon Wilson
New member
Yes. Obviously we are only talking about Access Land.
Madness
New member
jasonbirder said:
By knowing how many caves would be effected by the clarification of CRoW I might better understand the concerns that the anti-CRoW group have. If we all understand their concerns then perhaps we can work towards a solution that satisfies both sides. Why should there be a negative effect at all by the clarification of CRoW?
mrodoc
Well-known member
The CRoW issue isn't new. I used to get upset about when hang gliding over 30 years ago. As somebody else pointed out in the Guardian recently you can lug you hang glider or para glider across CRoW land but you cannot necessarily take off from it. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
Peter Burgess
New member
"It's only two padlocks". What a travesty of a completely ill-informed comment. In all the chats I have had over this nonsense, NOBODY has mentioned "two padlocks", but rather a whole range of general issues of great concern, all of which have been gone over here ad nauseam. If you are trying to distort the nature of the issues, you are managed it like a black hole swallows galaxies.
Peter Burgess
New member
It would add fuel to the fire. I am sick of it. It doesn't matter how much genuine concerns are expressed, those doing it just get vilified and ridiculed. I am not doing that again.
Oceanrower
Active member
Peter Burgess said:
TFFT!
Peter Burgess
New member
I aint going anywhere. You don't get off that lightly.
ZombieCake
Well-known member
Red sky at night ... get off my f**&@%g land.
Simon Wilson
New member
Peter Burgess said:
The two padlocks comes from a previous time when the question about how many cave on Mendip might be affected by CRoW was asked on this forum. The answer given was that the only gated caves on Mendip that might be affected were St. Cuthberts and Upper Flood. If you think we have been ill-informed then please correct it.
Two gated caves - hence the two padlocks.
Ed W
Member
Hi Simon,
This has come up before http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17419.msg229543#msg229543, and from that thread I made the following post;
UFS & Cuthberts were considered vulnerable because of stal, whilst Grebe and Bone it is Archaeology that is vulnerable.
This has come up before http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17419.msg229543#msg229543, and from that thread I made the following post;
UFS & Cuthberts were considered vulnerable because of stal, whilst Grebe and Bone it is Archaeology that is vulnerable.
Simon Wilson
New member
Peter Burgess said:
The concerns have been taken seriously but a genuine concern needs to be demonstrably genuine. People are genuinely concerned about landowner relations and this can be demonstrated by the fact that it is recorded in the minutes of CNCC meetings. Pitlamp has been invited to CNCC meetings to contribute to the discussions and he has declined.
Simon Wilson said:
Pitlamp replied that he didn't have time to justify it but that might try to in the future. That justification will be welcome and will be given serious consideration. If Pitlamp knows of any landowners who have concerns then we need to know who they are and what their concerns are.
Simon Wilson
New member
Ed W said:
The question was discussed on this forum late in 2014 and I thought it came down to the two caves but if there are in fact four gated caves that are Access Land on Mendip then I stand corrected.
So it boils down to four padlocks on Mendip (that apparently could be sorted out by doing some paperwork) compared to several hundred square miles of karst in the North of England.
Peter Burgess
New member
Mendip has huge potential for more discoveries. We are not talking about the present situation here. Conservation minded cavers and owners will be reluctant to open up new sites if they think there is the slightest chance of legislation being used to put them at risk.
