The Old Ruminator said:Re trash. Part of Balch Cave remains ungated. Many white formations have been smeared in mud.
Somebody has deliberately rubbed mud onto lots of white stal. Thank goodness the other quarry caves are gated. You want open access and this is what you get.
droid said:Mendip cavers can decide what they like, Simon. That is 'democracy' Your allegations will make little difference.
And they can say what they like too. That's called 'freedom of speech'.
If you don't like it, jog on.
cavermark said:Balch Cave is not on access land.
It could be gated and remain unaffected by any changes to the interpretation of CROW.
The damage is caused by idiots, not a campaign for changes to the intrerpretation of CROW.
The Old Ruminator said:Somebody has deliberately rubbed mud onto lots of white stal. Thank goodness the other quarry caves are gated. You want open access and this is what you get.
I had that conversation 20 or 30 years ago, contrasting the sad mess I had seen in Dales caves and contrasting them with the protected sites I prefer to visit in Somerset and Wales.mrodoc said:cavermark said:Balch Cave is not on access land.
It could be gated and remain unaffected by any changes to the interpretation of CROW.
The damage is caused by idiots, not a campaign for changes to the intrerpretation of CROW.
There are clearly a lot of idiots in Yorkshire where CRoW access is more significant. I cannot believe some of the wanton damage I have seen when I have visited caves up north. I am concerned that allowing any old bod to wander down a cave up there will just make things worse than they are already. Yes, it would be nice to just go anywhere but it is unlikely to happen. Hang gliders never got things altered and I can remember similar arguments over this back in the late 70's.
Simon Wilson said:Do the extremists like Cookie really represent the majority view of Mendip cavers?
I just think that BCA should follow its own rules.
I think that makes you an extremist. Just accept the truth.Cookie said:Simon Wilson said:Do the extremists like Cookie really represent the majority view of Mendip cavers?
I've been promoted to an extremist.
I'm not though. I just think that BCA should follow its own rules.
mrodoc said:cavermark said:Balch Cave is not on access land.
It could be gated and remain unaffected by any changes to the interpretation of CROW.
The damage is caused by idiots, not a campaign for changes to the intrerpretation of CROW.
There are clearly a lot of idiots in Yorkshire where CRoW access is more significant. I cannot believe some of the wanton damage I have seen when I have visited caves up north. I am concerned that allowing any old bod to wander down a cave up there will just make things worse than they are already. Yes, it would be nice to just go anywhere but it is unlikely to happen. Hang gliders never got things altered and I can remember similar arguments over this back in the late 70's.
Hanging is the classic argument against that.jasonbirder said:I just think that BCA should follow its own rules.
How about a moral rule, thats universally accepted...
From kids in the playground deciding whether to play football or tracker...to the most powerful nation on earth deciding its leader...
When you take a vote...the side that loses accepts the verdict with good grace...and doesn't waste everyone's time trying to delay, obstruct and obfuscate
Votes are quite handy things though. So are Guiding Principles. But if you don't know what your Guiding Principles are, or aren't bothered about them ..........Cookie said:Democracy is not as simple as enacting the result of the last vote.
I'll tell you why, Jason. Because it's stinks of peer pressure, that's why. Why should I be made to play football, just because some gobby lad (in the theoretical playground) says I have to? I won't stop you playing football, but don't expect everybody else to join your team.jasonbirder said:How about a moral rule, thats universally accepted...
From kids in the playground deciding whether to play football or tracker...to the most powerful nation on earth deciding its leader...