The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
rhychydwr1 said:
We havn't finished it yet !
Access Re Caves on Longleat Land ( ie Reservoir Hole )
- Thread starter The Old Ruminator
- Start date
We havn't finished it yet !
alastairgott
Well-known member
wormster said:
I've got a red one, but am also a member of a club.
I'm sure the red one is liked just as much as the green. It shows that you've joined something to show you're a caver and not a Joe off the street.
Some people choose to have red cards instead of green, even if they are longstanding club members. This is for a variety of reasons, I'm sure there are many, but it shouldn't stop them from joining in.
I would despair if I had to get the Treasurer of our club to sign on my behalf to say I'm a club member.
dugadig
Member
rhychydwr1 said:
I thought any entrance on that side of the gorge belonged to longleat estates, so I'm not sure if the new entrance would make any difference !
Hey ho.. meanwhile.. little Johnny gets walked into White Spot Cave entrance.. climbs through the rails and goes bowling ass over tit down the rift chamber!
I certainly don't think it's to do with worrying about anyone's safety.. They just want to claim reservoir firmly as belonging to them!
cap n chris
Well-known member
dugadig said:
Because it does.
ZombieCake
Well-known member
dugadig
Member
mikem said:
No.. they are asking you to sign waivers to free themselves of obligation.
If they are concerned about being sued they should look at all the caves on that side of the gorge and anyone wanting to enter one of these caves would also have to sign a waiver.
Looks like at least little Johnny's parents could put in one hell of a claim.
As far as RH is concerned I believe it's more to do with the fact that in the future they may do something with it themselves.
Once the cable car is sorted of course.
Not wanting argument here.. just my opinion.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Yes, Dugadig, White Spot Cave arguably ought to be gated, if that's what you mean. It would be far better if it was as presently it is pretty much just full of human poo and litter/broken glass etc..
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
We all know that Ed but in this case it is a matter of keeping the landowner ( who is also a big business enterprise ) happy. I suppose as Reservoir Hole is their " asset " they could have come up with a charge for entry or built a tearoom and turnstile in front of it. Why some cavers think they have rights to go anywhere they like I really dont know. If I was a landowner I could thing of many ways of excluding access . Same with locks. The place would have been trashed by now without access procedures which to my mind are quite straightforward and designed with conservation in mind.
Seems sensible not to rock the boat in this case.
Seems sensible not to rock the boat in this case.
Obviously there are many issues to consider here. One of them is whether you are making a rod for your own back that will then be replicated in other parts. By complying with this landowner request you must consider whether this will make things better or worse over the long term. Why have an age limit of 18 for example, with a conservation warden system already in place there is no good reason why an under 18 shouldn't experience this trip. Perhaps a different approach needs to be taken by both sides.
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
A fair point but one must consider who has the whip hand here. In any case this is pretty much a singular case involving a very powerful and ambitious landowner. Basically we can carry on as before but they wish to have the age limit set at 18. No doubt their legal team have reasons for this. They have given the situation a very close scrutiny .
David Rose
Active member
I am just not happy with this idea that simply because Longleat's lawyers, presumably from some swank London firm with no experience or knowledge of caving, have "given thought" to these restrictions, we should put up with it. The age limit is unjustified and unacceptable, as it also is with St Cuthbert's and the Charterhouse caves - Charterhouse itself, GB, Rhino Rift etc. Indeed, only last week, one of Reservoir Hole's original explorers suggested on the phone to me that my son Daniel (13) and I join him on a trip. I was naturally keen. I guess he had forgotten about the age limit.
I would like to suggest that as a minimum, the BCA gets involved to try to persuade the Longleat estate to moderate these proposals. I also urge the CSCC to do what it can to remove other age limits. The issue is not what chronological age a person is, but whether they are mature, responsible, accompanied by other experienced cavers and capable of doing a trip.
Daniel is a keen and very capable caver. He's proficient at SRT. But unless we travel all the way to the Dales from our home in Oxford, there are few worthwhile caves we can do. In the Mendips, our nearest area, there is really nothing except Swildon's and Eastwater, and believe me, there is a limit to how many times you can feel enthusiastic about going on another trip down Swildon's, pleasant as it is.
I vividly remember doing St Cuthbert's when I was 14. Guess what: no one died, and no formations got damaged. Why is there now a rigid, unbreakable rule - enforced not by a big estate but cavers?
It's time we fought these restrictions. And people worry that the average age of active cavers is rising, and there isn't enough new blood. Ever wondered why?
How about the BEC making a start with St Cuthbert's?
I would like to suggest that as a minimum, the BCA gets involved to try to persuade the Longleat estate to moderate these proposals. I also urge the CSCC to do what it can to remove other age limits. The issue is not what chronological age a person is, but whether they are mature, responsible, accompanied by other experienced cavers and capable of doing a trip.
Daniel is a keen and very capable caver. He's proficient at SRT. But unless we travel all the way to the Dales from our home in Oxford, there are few worthwhile caves we can do. In the Mendips, our nearest area, there is really nothing except Swildon's and Eastwater, and believe me, there is a limit to how many times you can feel enthusiastic about going on another trip down Swildon's, pleasant as it is.
I vividly remember doing St Cuthbert's when I was 14. Guess what: no one died, and no formations got damaged. Why is there now a rigid, unbreakable rule - enforced not by a big estate but cavers?
It's time we fought these restrictions. And people worry that the average age of active cavers is rising, and there isn't enough new blood. Ever wondered why?
How about the BEC making a start with St Cuthbert's?
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
While I tentatively tend to agree with David's points Longleat Estates is not somebody anybody on Mendip would wish to pick a fight with. I doubt ,also, that many down here would wish the BCA to be involved as we feel it's best handled informally at a local level. We have basically what we want here and that is unrestricted ( except for the age requirement ) free ( except for the ?2 conservation fee ) access under the existing scheme instituted by Willie Stanton. I rather believe more stringent requirements were dropped during those informal meetings .
