Aygill Caverns Rigging

[samueld]

I took my first trip down Aygill Caverns today, and spent a while thinking about the rigging for the second pitch (Cascade Pitch), which has left me wondering if I missed something.

The CNCC Topo shows a natural first belay down to a y-hang between a CNCC fixed anchor and another natural (thread).

I struggled to find a natural I was particularly happy with for the first belay. My eventual choice worked fine for just me, but if I had been with a group I would've been concerned about it being dislodged accidentally when slack; there was no nice wrap-around possible with the sling to keep it in place.

I notice the RRCPC Hypertext guide seems to suggest no belay here - just sliding down the chute and rigging from there, but it seems like too exposed a slide to be comfortable for me. It's not a particularly large ledge from which to rig the pitch.

I'm posting this just in case anyone can contradict my findings - perhaps there is a better first belay which I missed, or perhaps someone can confirm it is a tricky one. It just seemed strange for a fairly popular CNCC-anchored cave to be lacking a good belay to begin an exposed descent.

 

[langcliffe]

You seem to have summarised the position pretty well!

 

[Babyhagrid]

I remember finding a natural that was very high up in the roof . I had to climb up the walls to rig off it and I'm pretty tall.
It was reasonably large I remember

 

[langcliffe]

I remember finding a natural that was very high up in the roof . I had to climb up the walls to rig off it and I'm pretty tall.
It was reasonably large I remember

That's the one I use. It requires a thin sling, and doesn't give one a lot of confidence.

 

[Alex]

Yes I remember the one on the left at about 2m up is not that great, but I have memory of finding something much better far up in the roof but I can't be 100% sure. Needs a decent anchor of some-kind as I do remember struggling for a while myself to find a good one.

 

[CNCC]

There have been a number of serious hydrological changes and collapses in the upper parts of Aygill over recent years. It may be that the natural belay depicted on our topo has changed. Do you feel there is scope for a drilled thread backup or would an anchor be needed?

 

[IanWalker]

I recall a satisfactory thread high in the roof, on the left. This is for approaching the pitchhead. I don't think the floods will have affected it

Black soot marks on the ceiling can sometimes be a useful indicator for these things

Speaking personally I don't see the need for a drill here. Finding, appraising and using naturals is a skill to be encouraged

Happy to go take a look this next weekend, weather permitting

 

[samueld]

If there is a sufficient natural, I think I'd agree with Ian. It'll be interesting to go back with what's been said here and take another look at it.

Thanks everyone for at least confirming I didn't miss something obvious!

 

[IanWalker]

Following the query by @samueld, I revisited Aygill yesterday to check the rigging for the first and second pitches.

For the second pitch, the flake/spike described above is still there and usable. It is high up on the left wall, directly above the start of the chute - near the heavy black soot staining on the ceiling.

There is also a very sound-looking natural thread on the right wall, directly opposite the flake thread. There is no way a threaded rope would fall out of this one.

Threre are also chockstone threads slightly further back from the pitch, which are easier to see and reach.

I will send a topo update to the @CNCC

Thanks to the people who accompanied / carried tackle / measured and washed ropes.

 

[samueld]

Thanks Ian, I look forward to my next trip and having a better look around.