Bull Pot (Kingsdale) entrance rigging

[langcliffe]

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cncc.org.uk

It's not necessarily an error. It may just be the way that the guy who drew up the topo rigs the hole. I'm sure that the CNCC wouldn't claim that there are hard and fast rules associated with rigging off their anchors.

 

[hannahb]

I think I will offer a suggestion anyway. The suggested 25 metres is too much, and the 15 metres for the second pitch is just a tad short for tying in at the bottom.

 

[langcliffe]

I think I will offer a suggestion anyway. The suggested 25 metres is too much, and the 15 metres for the second pitch is just a tad short for tying in at the bottom.

One is better of with the latest NC for rope lengths, That suggests 15 m for the first pitch (I use 12 m). It also suggests 15 m for the second, but I use a 45 m rope for the second and the Slot combined.

 

[deffonotmaria]

As an additional question for this thread, for the very last pitch, how have people rigged this?
We were down BP yesterday and found that the 30m rope as stated on the topo and in NC was not enough and our rigger ran out of rope 6-8m off the bottom. The CNCC description says the traverse starts immediately after the bend (where there are bolts). It ended up as a floorless traverse so we felt like the bolts were meant to be used (and only one additional was used) but may have been more recent additions since the topo looks like it’s from 2019?

 

[deffonotmaria]

As an additional question for this thread, for the very last pitch, how have people rigged this?
We were down BP yesterday and found that the 30m rope as stated on the topo and in NC was not enough and our rigger ran out of rope 6-8m off the bottom. The CNCC description says the traverse starts immediately after the bend (where there are bolts). It ended up as a floorless traverse so we felt like the bolts were meant to be used (and only one additional was used) but may have been more recent additions since the topo looks like it’s from 2019?

(The first 3 bolts of the last pitch)

 

[langcliffe]

That looks about right to me, although it's easier to get off if one uses a single hang rather than a Y-hang for the first short drop. The first bolt is not far from the drop. There used to be a higher traverse route from the bend where there might still be bolts which could confuse.

 

[hannahb]

There used to be a higher traverse route from the bend where there might still be bolts which could confuse.

Is this maybe what you did @deffonotmaria?

Northern Caves says 30 metres for that pitch and they are not usually wrong (we should have checked for the entrance pitch).

 

[deffonotmaria]

Is this maybe what you did @deffonotmaria?

Northern Caves says 30 metres for that pitch and they are not usually wrong (we should have checked for the entrance pitch).

That sounds like what was rigged
Neither the cncc description or NC mention a high traverse route from what I’ve read (not sure if it’s worth adding?) but just means i’ll have to go back and have another go

 

[langcliffe]

Neither the cncc description or NC mention a high traverse route from what I’ve read (not sure if it’s worth adding?)

That's because it's been superseded! If I remember rightly, one followed a line from above the beginning of the passage. I can't remember if they were spits or bolts. I suspect the former, as they don't appear on the original (undated) rigging guide - "C.N.C.C. Eco-Rigging System No. 1". That showed the traverse starting at the boulder at the start of the passage, but still recommended a 30 metre rope.

 

[HardenClimber3]

While we are about it, the second deviation on the penultimate pitch is very difficult to reach. Indeed, it possibly creates risk. If the water is high enough that you'd want to use it, failure to reach it would result in a swing into the water (and rock...).
I need to go back and have another look, but I'm sure it could be better arranged.

 

[rm128]

While we are about it, the second deviation on the penultimate pitch is very difficult to reach. Indeed, it possibly creates risk. If the water is high enough that you'd want to use it, failure to reach it would result in a swing into the water (and rock...).
I need to go back and have another look, but I'm sure it could be better arranged.

Were you going for the anchor or the natural? The anchor is indeed interesting to reach. Last time I was there in conditions wet enough to use this deviation, I managed to reach the anchor, but decided against using it in the end out of consideration for my derigger. It was only after the trip that I noticed the topo recommends using the natural. As I wasn't looking for a natural, I didn't find one. I just wonder if it's easy to find and/or easier to reach.

 

[HardenClimber3]

Were you going for the anchor or the natural? The anchor is indeed interesting to reach. Last time I was there in conditions wet enough to use this deviation, I managed to reach the anchor, but decided against using it in the end out of consideration for my derigger. It was only after the trip that I noticed the topo recommends using the natural. As I wasn't looking for a natural, I didn't find one. I just wonder if it's easy to find and/or easier to reach.

I was heading for the anchor, but also having a look round. Didn't see anything obvious and certainly nothing easily threadable.

 

[topcat]

I seem to recall a flake below the anchor? I know I considered a rebelay there rather than a dev but was concerned about having enough rope for the Y.

Previous comments about if you need it you are going to be taking risks to get it sounds about right.

My de- rigger enjoyed herself immensely

 

[ChrisB]

It's a long time since I was there so don't remember enough to understand the discussion, but there was a new (non-CNCC) route bolted there which may be part of the confusion:

Thread 'New route bolted in Bull Pot Kingsdale?'

Dec 29, 2023

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0RsHnffbHgWxusuBiAmBtNMFgn658KAhSfQdL4jfabsU19GMb4dxETZvS3t6gw32yl&id=639889459

Found this FB post from someone with a topo for a new route in the entrance of Bull Pot Kingsdale (7 Petzl 10mm bolts). Presumably not an official CNCC installation?

• andrewmcleod
• Replies: 21
• Forum: The Dales

• 

 

[langcliffe]

It's a long time since I was there so don't remember enough to understand the discussion, but there was a new (non-CNCC) route bolted there which may be part of the confusion:

Thread 'New route bolted in Bull Pot Kingsdale?'

Dec 29, 2023

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0RsHnffbHgWxusuBiAmBtNMFgn658KAhSfQdL4jfabsU19GMb4dxETZvS3t6gw32yl&id=639889459

Found this FB post from someone with a topo for a new route in the entrance of Bull Pot Kingsdale (7 Petzl 10mm bolts). Presumably not an official CNCC installation?

• andrewmcleod
• Replies: 21
• Forum: The Dales

• 

That starts about three metres down, but it isn't obvious without going round a corner. It's a good route, actually - makes the entrance pitch a lot more interesting.

 

[rm128]

That starts about three metres down, but it isn't obvious without going round a corner. It's a good route, actually - makes the entrance pitch a lot more interesting.

... and drops one nicely onto the traverse to the 2nd pitch. I don't think this will be causing any confusion re the current discussion.

 

[hannahb]

Yeah we saw that route but it wasn't part of what we were ruminating about

 

[Pitlamp]

There was never all this mather in the days when folk just used to chuck a ladder down.

 

[hannahb]

Mather?

Or sharing information and learning?

 

[Pitlamp]

Just an observation . . . .