B.C.A.

[ChrisB]

Hi Cap'n. The official word is probably canoeist, but most call themselves paddlers.

The row over coaching qualifications is recent; the plan is to make the coaching scheme consistent with other UK sports coaching (like rugby and soccer) but in the process it may mean that people's existing qualifications fall into the gaps between the new ones. I don't get involved in formal coaching, just helping people out on trips like I did climbing, so I don't know any more. However (to get back to the point!) the minutes secrecy has been a running battle for years.

I think the serious point is that you can have a volunteer run national body and put up with things getting done as and when, or you can have one with several full time paid staff and much more 'politics'. I'm new to caving so I'm only guessing how BCA runs (my membership application is in the system) but I'm guessing its run more like a club than a company.

 

[Les W]

I'm new to caving so I'm only guessing how BCA runs (my membership application is in the system) but I'm guessing its run more like a club than a company.

You're pretty much right on that one.
BCA has two paid part time administrators, one looking after the training awards admin and one looking after the membership (and insurance) admin. Everyone else is a volunteer.

The really annoying thing is that when all is well nobody cares, but when things aren't working right, guess how many offers of help turn up.

 

[Stu]

God forbid the BCA went the way of the BCU!!! 

 

[graham]

The really annoying thing is that when all is well nobody cares, but when things aren't working right, guess how many offers of help turn up.

'twas ever thus, Les. It's got worse in the last few years, though, 'cos almost none of the younger ones realise they have obligations as well as rights anymore.

 

[cap n chris]

There are some active people within CSCC who are less than 90!....

 

[Hughie]

If so I think you'll find that your club is required to keep you informed of all BCA news (the club secretary receives a copy of the BCA newsletter on behalf of your club); this requirement to pass on BCA communications to club members is a primary requirement of club compliance as part of its BCA membership. Perhaps you should be badgering your club secretary to find out why they haven't kept you up to date on what's going on at National level?....

I read something to this effect in the CSCC minutes. I had a word with the Secretary of one of the clubs I belong to, but was assured the club hadn't been sent anything for a considerable time.

Definitely hard work being a volunteer. Not an easy job with limited time (would suit Whitelackington fine!!) 

 

[paul]

I went on The B.C.A. website and straight to the top.
I have emailed The Chairman, two weeks ago.
The point I was trying to make is
unless they keep us informed in a shortish space of time after metings,
they will be irrelavant.

Just how "irrelavant" would YOU say the BCA would be the next time there's some Health & Safety issue or beaurocratic threat to caving as we know it in the UK?

I presume you think having a national body to represent caving when any issues arise with Government or Local Government regulations which threaten caving would be "irrelavant"?

What do YOU suggest is a better system?

How about a bit of constructive criticism for a change instead of whining and moaning about emails not being answered or Minutes of Meetings not published to your satisfaction?

 

[nickwilliams]

Just how "irrelavant" would YOU say the BCA would be the next time there's some Health & Safety issue or beaurocratic threat to caving as we know it in the UK?

Lest it be thought that this is merely a hypothetical question, may I point out that both the Temporary Work at Height Regulations 2005 and the Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005 contain wording which makes special provision for the activities of cavers. In both cases the effort which went into negotiations with HSE while drafting the Regulations was considerable, and would not have been half as effective if it had not been backed by a national body representing cavers, i.e. BCA.

Nick.

 

[whitelackington]

Paul, I don't know what your problem is but I will tell what I am thinking.

For a club to get insurance, they have to belong to the B.C.A.

For a club to be a member of The B.C.A. they have to present their constitution.
Then they have to inform their membership of what is happening within The B.C.A.
Now most clubs I belong to Have to supply their members with A.G.M. reports within SIX WEEKS of that A.G.M.

Problem the clubs can't tell their members what happened, say at The B.C.A. last A.G.M.
WHY   because The B.C.A. have not told the clubs.
:ras:

 

[nickwilliams]

Paul, I don't know what your problem is but I will tell what I am thinking.

For a club to get insurance, they have to belong to the B.C.A.

For a club to be a member of The B.C.A. they have to present their constitution.
Then they have to inform their membership of what is happening within The B.C.A.
Now most clubs I belong to Have to supply their members with A.G.M. reports within SIX WEEKS of that A.G.M.

Problem the clubs can't tell their members what happened, say at The B.C.A. last A.G.M.
WHY   because The B.C.A. have not told the clubs.
:ras:

So, what are YOU going to do about it?

Nick.

 

[graham]

Avoid that question yet again, I suspect. 

 

[axbridgecaver]

Now most clubs I belong to Have to supply their members with A.G.M. reports within SIX WEEKS of that A.G.M.

This statement Have to supply their members with A.G.M. reports within SIX WEEKS of that A.G.M is definitely not in the constituion of the club that I belong to, and I would be surprised if it was in any club constitution.

 

[graham]

It's not in ours either.

But then Mr Whitelackington isn't amongst our members.  8)

 

[Brains]

We get ours at the next AGM...

 

[Peter Burgess]

As I haven't a clue who Mr Whitelackington is, then I can't say whether he is one of our members, but as we don't have this 6-week rule, then I suppose he probably isn't.

Actually, there is always someone sitting at the back of the room at the AGM, who always asks awkward questions. I wonder......

 

[paul]

Paul, I don't know what your problem is but I will tell what I am thinking.

For a club to get insurance, they have to belong to the B.C.A.

For a club to be a member of The B.C.A. they have to present their constitution.
Then they have to inform their membership of what is happening within The B.C.A.
Now most clubs I belong to Have to supply their members with A.G.M. reports within SIX WEEKS of that A.G.M.

Problem the clubs can't tell their members what happened, say at The B.C.A. last A.G.M.
WHY  because The B.C.A. have not told the clubs.
:ras:

My problem is that I'm fed up with your continuous whining.

OK so there were problems issuing some of the insurance cards. You are annoyed because the website isn't updated regularly and you haven't been able to get a copy of the most recent Minutes.

The BCA do a good job where it really matters: representing cavers and caving. As Nick points out with his two examples.

How about becoming part of the solution instead of the problem?

Get involved with your local Caving Council or even the BCA (there's a thought!).

How about that?

Moaning and whinging get you nowhere. Action might.

 

[Les W]

Paul, I don't know what your problem is but I will tell what I am thinking.

My problem is that I'm fed up with your continuous whining.

OK so there were problems issuing some of the insurance cards. You are annoyed because the website isn't updated regularly and you haven't been able to get a copy of the most recent Minutes.

The BCA do a good job where it really matters: representing cavers and caving. As Nick points out with his two examples.

How about becoming part of the solution instead of the problem?

Get involved with your local Caving Council or even the BCA (there's a thought!).

How about that?

Moaning and whinging get you nowhere. Action might.

 

[cap n chris]

Get involved with your local Caving Council

Don't feel you need to actually do this, by the way; your present level of input is entirely adequate already*.


* BTW you get a mention in the latest CSCC minutes (not published yet) under Conservation/Access for your kind assistance with the Star Shaft/Mine installation work. Thanks again anyway.

 

[graham]

Chris, what do you mean that the minutes haven't been published yet? 

 

[cap n chris]

Today's Tuesday, the meeting was Saturday. When do you think they should be published?