Bad air / pollution / bad bolts / etc

[Hanging Death]

Knotlow 210' Engine Shaft Rebelay Loose Bolts

Noticed today that the rebelay at the end of Chain Passage:-
The resin bolt rotates in the rock more than it should - have emailed the DCA.
The non-resin bolt is loose, the hanger rotates when it shouldn't!

 

[JB]

Knotlow 210' Engine Shaft Rebelay Loose Bolts
The resin bolt rotates in the rock more than it should - have emailed the DCA.

Hi, thanks very much for your note. Someone will nip in and have a look. Please don't use this anchor until further notice.

The non-resin bolt is loose, the hanger rotates when it shouldn't!

I can't remember what sort of anchor this is (8mm Spit, Petzl P38 etc.) Anyone know? Just wondering whether it's likely to be threads knackered inside the Spit/bolt needs tightening inside the Spit/nut holding the hanger in position needs tightening etc.

Jules Barrett.

 

[Hanging Death]

Replied to your email Jules. The non-resin bolt is an expansion anchor and probably just wants the nut tightening - didn't have a spanner with us. Cheers.

 

[JB]

Knotlow 210' Engine Shaft Rebelay Loose Bolts

Noticed today that the rebelay at the end of Chain Passage:-
The resin bolt rotates in the rock more than it should - have emailed the DCA.

This anchor is a Fixe resin anchor. It was installed by persons unknown and is NOT an eco-anchor placed under the DCA anchor scheme. There is currently a small amount of movement (~1mm) in the anchor. Good rigging should ensure that the load is shared between more than one of the available anchors. DCA have no immediate plans to remove/replace this anchor.

The non-resin bolt is loose, the hanger rotates when it shouldn't!

The nut holding the hanger plate in place on the expansion anchor has been tightened up. Also another Nylock nut has been added so that should sort the problem of the loose hanger plate.

Thanks again for reporting the anchors. Good to see that cavers are giving those anchors a twist rather than trusting them implicitly

Jules Barrett, DCA

 

[Brains]

Ditzy and I were in Wapping Mine this morning. We were on the entrance level but at the back end of the mine. I was in a small heading and Kim was in an enlargement on the main level when we both heard and felt a long loud rumble that seemed to be between us and the entrance. We abandoned our plans for further exploration and exited the mine, but on the way out we failed to see any indication of the collapse. Wherever it is, it sounded BIG so be careful if you are planning a visit.

 

[braveduck]

It was probebly an earthquake.There is nothing on the BGS  British earthquake list yet ,but I will keep checking.
Did you hear a second rumble or did you come out too soon?Do you know the approx time?

 

[ditzy 24//7]

bri only heard a noise for a few seconds like falling rocks. i heard the noice for about 5 seconds+ but it was echoing.
brio didnt feel any vibrations in the floor but i was in a diffrent part of the mine to him and i was sat on the floor!
i felt a strond vibration go past me. im not too sure if the vibration started or if the noise started first.

 

[Brains]

Gussing it was about 12 - 12.30 ish, back and changed by 1300. Felt earth tremors before and it felt more like a collapse...

 

[braveduck]

OK,may be a collapse,but will keep checking the earthquake web site.
They are not posted up same day allways.
The train like sound does indicate a quake through.

 

[Keith L]

I live about a crow-flies mile from Wapping/Cumberland, near High Tor and the Bacon Rake that I think Wapping is on. I wasn't aware of anything around that time, if it was a quake I could have missed it or it could have been local to Wapping.

 

[Brains]

A_R has posted this on Mine-explorer in respnse to Ditzys posting of this collapse...

As I've posted over on AN I'm pretty sure this was actually a collapse happening in the nearby Royal-Hopping-Tear Breeches mine complex, which is extremely unstable and has seen people killed in it in the past through falling rocks, hence why it's now completely off-limits.

 

[JasonL]

Nettle pot, from the bottom of Beza, through the crawl and handline to red river passage

It was rather odd.. We haven't read about the bad air in the Descent yet, and we went down, but we were warned by Martin that there was abit of bad air down there. Went down with carbide, and my light became REALLY DIM. The flame was like 1cm or something. Still had loads of rock/water. Walking through from the short squeeze to red river passage was, very odd.. could hardly breathe, and felt like a 23 year old geriatric. Other memebers in the party (from TSG/CUCC as well) complained of similar air gasping experiences. Take heed!!

 

[shotlighter]

Also bear in mind that carbide lamps will burn in O2 concentrations that won't support combustion of say a candle. There's a double whammy here, in this condition, the combustion produces carbon monoxide.

 

[IanWalker]

Titan - loose anchors

Not much of a post but here goes:

In Titan yesterday, I noticed a couple of loose nuts on the stud-type anchors.  I had a normal 13mm spanner with me but this is much too small so could only do them up hand-tight.  They are:

On approach to the window at head of main shaft: 2nd anchor.
At event horizon rebelay: 3rd from left.

If anyone's going in soon it may be worth taking an adjustable spanner and nipping them up properly.  I noticed neither of the loose nuts were nylon locknuts as found elsewhere in Titan.

Ian.

Ps to mods - would it be worth tidying this thread a little, there's a lot of discussion (?).

 

[Pete K]

Jug Holes instability

Copied from Hitch n' Hike's info site http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/cavenews.htm

"Jug Holes: Small rock fall
Report From: Daryl Godfrey / Adam Evans.
Report Date: 13/03/2009.
Published: 21/03/2009.

I was telephoned by Richard Saunders and John Buckle (local cavers) to inform me that a large boulder " the size of a football" had fallen down the upper entrance (climbable shaft) while they were exiting today (Friday 13th - Superstition - optional). Some moments later - I received another telephone call from Gary Noble at Derbyshire Youth Service to ask the procedure for reporting 'Dangerous Ground' Gary had observed a large fracture and obvious destabilsation extendeing back to the large boulder yesterday ( Thursday 12th). Gary noted the that it looked likely that it was ready to subside. Evidently he was correct! It is now obvious that this area of 'Jug Holes Lower' is in need of some attention / investigation. It is perhaps prudent to give this site a wide birth for the time being until DCA / PICA have investigated and either given assurances or untertaken the necessary work to stabilse this problem."

 

[Jenny P]

For your information, I have circulated the following message to all DCA clubs:

Long Rake Mine, Youlgreave - Danger!

Some cavers recently visited this mine and found it full of fumes, almost certainly from an engine working on the surface.  Please note that this mine is part of a working site on private land and there is no agreed access while this is so. You are urged to ensure that all cavers are made aware of the situation.

Jenny Potts,
Hon. Sec. DCA

 

[Iain Barker]

Long Rake (Derbyshire Aggregates) are now aware of illegal trips into thier mine thanks to posts on this site. As Access Officer for DCA I've got to sort this out; cheers all. Just to make it abundantly clear -

LONG RAKE IS A WORKING SITE AND ACCESS IS FORBIDDEN. A TRIP INTO THIS MINE CONSTITUTES AN ILLEGAL ACT AND DCA DOES NOT CONDONE ANY SUCH ACTIVITIES

If someone gets hurt down there,  every landowner who (after much trouble and negotiation from DCA) grants us access to the caves and mines on thier land will shut them with immediate effect, it's what they're waiting for.

 

[Pete K]

P8 - LARGE ROCK MOVEMENT BELOW FAR FLATS PITCH / ABOVE STREAMWAY

This afternoon myself and a friend were up in the Flats area of P8 and as we made our way through the tight crawly/climb down to the far (Flats?) pitch I noticed a couple of breeze-block sized rocks moving underfoot. We shifted those back to a safe place but, as we rolled the last one off, the rock I was stood on began to sink and rolled off down towards the streamway (cue the need for new pants). This rock was about a metre across and is similar in size to a large 4x4 tyre! It made it a few metres down the rift and stuck. Bloomin good bang! It currently sits solid in the rift but it is unsupported and pinned in by a small nobble of rock. We did our best to shift it down to the streamway but it is too heavy. I recon it won't go much further but it has potential to drop onto anyone below. The rock would land in the stream on the bend just after the obstruction you have to climb over on route to the 1st pitch.

I imagine it would be a good idea to take a big hammer to it and drop it safely down into the stream, perhaps on a quiet evening!

DCA have been informed.

Pete
Darkside CMC/Edale YHA

 

[ttxela]

Jug Holes instability

Copied from Hitch n' Hike's info site http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/cavenews.htm

"Jug Holes: Small rock fall
Report From: Daryl Godfrey / Adam Evans.
Report Date: 13/03/2009.
Published: 21/03/2009.

I was telephoned by Richard Saunders and John Buckle (local cavers) to inform me that a large boulder " the size of a football" had fallen down the upper entrance (climbable shaft) while they were exiting today (Friday 13th - Superstition - optional). Some moments later - I received another telephone call from Gary Noble at Derbyshire Youth Service to ask the procedure for reporting 'Dangerous Ground' Gary had observed a large fracture and obvious destabilsation extendeing back to the large boulder yesterday ( Thursday 12th). Gary noted the that it looked likely that it was ready to subside. Evidently he was correct! It is now obvious that this area of 'Jug Holes Lower' is in need of some attention / investigation. It is perhaps prudent to give this site a wide birth for the time being until DCA / PICA have investigated and either given assurances or untertaken the necessary work to stabilse this problem."

Anyone know what the current situation is with Jug Holes?

 

[JB]

Winnats Head - Downstream Pitches

Thursday 28th May 2009

The downstream pitches in Winnats Head Cave are being equipped with eco anchors. This is the set of three 'down pitches' on the far side of the Sewer. This work will be finished soon but cavers should avoid the downstream pitches in Winnats Head Cave whilst the work is going on. Some old Spits have been removed and the eco anchor routes aren't yet complete.

I will post on here when the work is finished.

The 'up pitches' (i.e. the fixed rope immediately after the Sewer and the series of pitches leading to Wigwam Aven) are not affected.

Jules Barrett
DCA