Bakers Pit broken into again....

[NewStuff]

Some sort of notice or sign telling them who to contact would, I'm sure, be a good idea.  That's where I thought you were coming from.

This is what I was wondering about. Lock-chopping tends to be a last resort rather than a first response.

 

[martinr]

martinr:

Well done, but it seems somewhat silly completing the Contact form if, as you have already stated, you "don't want to visit" the cave. Did you mention that this was a "test" and that the results would be posted on a national caving forum?


Also, could someone please answer my previous query as to whether information concerning access is (and always has been) readily available on site?

I did not mention this was a test
I did not mention the result would be posted (and I have not posted the actual email, just a precis)

I did say I wanted to challenge an assertion made on UKCaving that it's not easy to make an official visit to Bakers Pit because access conditions are not well known or easy to find . I did not mention I was a caver or  that I was from any club, although they might well have guessed that I am?

The answer I received was adequate, it shows the system works. That's my final word on this matter

(edited to clarify what I asked)

 

[NewStuff]

Well, obviously it doesn't work if locks *keep* going missing (Before any of you with a sense of humour failure get uppity - I'm in a completely different country, I haven't removed any locks).

You seem to forget - We're all "plugged in" to the network. Given that I couldn't find a way to get a key, how do you think someone less familiar with the systems that generally get you access would fare?

 

[mrodoc]

I managed to sort out the key 50 years ago when I was a schoolboy and not caving with a club so nowadays amount with an ounce of initiative should be able to locate a key. Idiots who break into caves just cause problems for the rest of us.

 

[robjones]

... some people seem do seem to think they have a right to go anywhere they please and that locks and gates are simply there as challenges to be overcome...

The late Bob Lewis, a Bristol caver, articulated something akin to this philosophy in a letter to Descent in 1985 (no.62, p.37) in which he wrote 'It can be great fun gaining access to a "forbidden" system'. I encountered him only once, when I was staying as a guest at the old Cerberus cottage and one of the Fairy Cave Quarry cave entrances was attempted to be broken into in the wee hours of the night (reports: Descent no.63, p.7; and no.65, p.34) but the circumstances were not conducive to a multi-sided discussion on his access philosophy. I recall that his obituary in Descent made muted reference to his access philosophy but it post-dates published Descent indexes and I cannot readily locate it.

 

[martinr]

...
We're all "plugged in" to the network. Given that I couldn't find a way to get a key, how do you think someone less familiar with the systems that generally get you access would fare?

 

[NewStuff]

I managed to sort out the key 50 years ago when I was a schoolboy and not caving with a club so nowadays amount with an ounce of initiative should be able to locate a key. Idiots who break into caves just cause problems for the rest of us.

Well, obviously other people are "idiots without an ounce on initiative" and can't get a key.  :

Slagging everyone off won't help anything. Still, not my area, not my problem, you lot go have fun with your locks getting cut etc.

 

[NewStuff]

...
We're all "plugged in" to the network. Given that I couldn't find a way to get a key, how do you think someone less familiar with the systems that generally get you access would fare?

You do know that google personalises searches, yeah?
I don't get that result, hence saying I can't find a fucking way to get a fucking key. I can muster enough braincells to type in a basic search query  :icon_321: :

With your attitude of "works for me, your experience is irrelevant", I hope you enjoy getting your locks nuked.

 

[martinr]

.....
Slagging everyone off won't help anything. ....

Oh, the irony....

 

[martinr]

You do know that google personalises searches, yeah?


With your attitude of "works for me, your experience is irrelevant", I hope you enjoy getting your locks nuked.

A search on DuckDuckGo (albeit with "devon" added) returns pretty much the same result

My only point is that with a little bit of effort it is possible to find the info on the web. I wasn't being rude to you, please don't be rude to me

 

[Pegasus]

[admin]Folks, please calm it down or I'll lock the thread, thank you, Pegasus[/admin]

 

[caving_fox]

...
We're all "plugged in" to the network. Given that I couldn't find a way to get a key, how do you think someone less familiar with the systems that generally get you access would fare?

This to be fair doesn't tell you how to get a key, merely that one is required. (A search for just Baker's pit (with or without access gets you to  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakers_Pit doesn't have that link!) It also assumes you know the name of the hole that you've just stumbled across, which may or may not be so obvious (I don't know the area).

 

[Cartwright26]

Its rolling!!!!

Criminal damage is a police matter. Landowner or local caving council C&A rep can get the ball rolling easily.

 

[Cartwright26]

Access is simple you can ask...... DSS, PCG, BCG, DART ROCK, PENGELLEY, DCUC.... and many more places.... do people complain theu cant access GB or otters hole or reservoir hole..... No they ask for a key and a permit.... whys it such an issue all of a sudden?
Surely conservation should be at the front of all our minds especially a cave located in a town!!!!

 

[martinr]

......... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakers_Pit doesn't have that link!........

actually, the wiki page does have the link for access:

 

[NewStuff]

You do know that google personalises searches, yeah?


With your attitude of "works for me, your experience is irrelevant", I hope you enjoy getting your locks nuked.

A search on DuckDuckGo (albeit with "devon" added) returns pretty much the same result

My only point is that with a little bit of effort it is possible to find the info on the web. I wasn't being rude to you, please don't be rude to me

Your image implies I can't google worth shit. That's rude. If I had called you a spineless, thin-skinned toad, then yes, that may have also been a little rude, but thankfully I didn't, despite my almost overwhelming urge to do so when faced with the prospect of replying to someone of your nature.

 

[David Rose]

I enjoyed several trips into Baker's Pit when I was a teenager in the 1970s. It was an excellent place to learn how to find one's way, and I still remember the buzz of getting up into the Plymouth extensions, which was said to be hard to find. It would be a great shame to lose access to this important system. Like Nig, I want to improve access to caves everywhere, and I agree with him that cutting off locks is stupid and irresponsible.

 

[paul]

You do know that google personalises searches, yeah?


With your attitude of "works for me, your experience is irrelevant", I hope you enjoy getting your locks nuked.

A search on DuckDuckGo (albeit with "devon" added) returns pretty much the same result

My only point is that with a little bit of effort it is possible to find the info on the web. I wasn't being rude to you, please don't be rude to me

Your image implies I can't google worth shit. That's rude. If I had called you a spineless, thin-skinned toad, then yes, that may have also been a little rude, but thankfully I didn't, despite my almost overwhelming urge to do so when faced with the prospect of replying to someone of your nature.

[gmod]That's enough NewStuff. If you have nothing useful to say, please refrain from posting. [/gmod]

 

[Lockchopper]

By the way, calling someone Nig is a microaggression and I am triggered. There is no place for racism, especially on a caving forum.

It's a shame people have to be nannied around places, or go out of their way to get a key, or track people down. What is wrong with a bolt, or a combination? It's not about control after all, is it? It's about children and their fluffy pets meeting a sticky end.

 

[cap n chris]

Calling yourself Lockchopper instead of the more accurate term, Criminaldamage, seems aggressive.