Battery boxes for 4.5v Duracells

[robjones]

Dinosaur caver out-of-touch with any lights post 1990 seeks advice!

I'm still happily using Oldhams (don't laugh too loud...) and find that my two young sons need lights now they are doing decent trips, some wet - e.g. Little Neath. As I have a lot of Oldhams spares I intend to build around these. The boys only cave about four times a year so 4.5v flatpack Duracells seem the best option - too much hassle and expense to try and keep two extra lead-acids in good condition. Figure I will always use up the residual charge in the Duracells in my headtorch.

Two battery boxes seem potential candidates: Speloetechnics Nova, or Petzl Duo. However the Petzl box doesn't seem to be available as a spare part.  This leave the Nova box, which has the advantage of being inexpensive - ?8.15 in the current CS catalogue.

Any suggestions on the practicalities of converting a Nova box to be compatible with an Oldham cable?

* Are Spelotechnics sockets sold as spare parts (can't see them listed however) and how feasible is it to mount one on an Oldham Cable?

* If I can't get sockets, then Nova cables with Fx Ion plugs are listed for ?9.25. However, are Nova cables of smaller diamter than Oldham cables? This risks water getting into the headshell if the fit is poor.

* Alternatively, any suggestions for a grommet or 'O' ring to enable an Oldham cable to be lead into a hole drilled in a Nova box? Presumbaly some sort of cable lock will be needed to safeguard against the cable being pulled out by accident.

* Previous posts on this site have discussed waterproofing battery boxes versus drilling holes to ensure they drain fast and efficiently - what was the consensus recommendation for Duracell battery boxes? To waterproof or to allow to drain?

Many thanks in anticipation of advice! 

 

[Pete K]

Hi Rob, welcome to the forum.

Petzl Duo battery boxes don't come as spares and can be hard to come by. No good anyway I imagine as they are slightly curved to fit a helmet better, I doubt the 4.5v battery would fit. The Speleo Nova box is generally the most common and will give you the advantage of being able to use AA, 9v or 4.5v batteries with the right adapter.

Personally, I would run the cable throught the case using a gromet and put spade connecters on the wires. This will connect straight on to the 4.5v batt and can be easily adapted to fit other battery holders. I hate the Speleo plugs as they always seem to get full of mud and can become the weak link in the chain.

Hope that helps you on your way!

 

[Les W]

Old style petzl zoom battery boxes are ideal for flat pack 4.5v Duracells.
You can bring the Oldham flex through the hole in the bottom and fit female spade crimps to it, these will fit straight onto the flat pack battery. Water is not really a problem with this system so long as it is allowed to dry out after use. The Duracells are fine in the wet and don't seem to leak or fall apart, as they are constructed from plastic. Fresh water is not a very good conductor and causes no shorting in the battery box.
I used a similar system for years without problems, including free diving several sumps in that time.

 

[McBad]

As a slight aside, who else these days, apart from cavers, uses the flat 4.5V Duracell batteries? 

Most of the cyclisits who used to use them in cycle lights have now probably converted to clever LED lights (and the rest don't seem to bother with lights anyway)...

Just wondering if I should start stockpiling 4.5V batteries in case they become unobtainable through lack of demand.  I've not noticed flat batteries in either B&Q or ASDA for a long time now.

Cheers,

M.

 

[robjones]

Thank you for your very useful replies! Shows that the forum really works as part of an online caving community. Hopefully this thread will be of some use to other cavers too...

Pete - you sort of confirm my instinct that leading an Oldham cable into a Speleo Duo box with crimped/soldered spade terminals and a grommet was the best and simplest way to go.

Les - I am such a Dinosaur that I'm still using a couple of Petzl Zooms abnd so do not have 'old' Zoom boxes to canibalise! I kinda feel that they are a bit soft and wimpy for caving use - I've got the relatively modern Zooms with large soft flaps rather than the really old more robust ones, unfortunately. Thanks for confirming the water-tolerance of flatpacks!

McBad - flatpack Duracells seem to still be pretty mainstream for the time being. I live in a small town well away from the major outdoor areas and the local Millets stock them so presumably there are enough cheap headlights (e.g. used by Scouts) that use them to make them worth stocking. I'm not worrying about availability for the time being...  If the worst did happen then three AA cells would substitute - with the advantage of being able to go down the rechargeable route, though it would be necessary to carry spares as they have far less capacity than flatpacks.

You raise an interesting question though - what major uses are there for flatpacks? Clearly they were not developed just for headlights and presumably they are not currently in production solely for headlights - there must be a bigger market for them to make them viable. Anyone know?

 

[Les W]

Les - I am such a Dinosaur that I'm still using a couple of Petzl Zooms abnd so do not have 'old' Zoom boxes to canibalise! I kinda feel that they are a bit soft and wimpy for caving use - I've got the relatively modern Zooms with large soft flaps rather than the really old more robust ones, unfortunately. Thanks for confirming the water-tolerance of flatpacks!

The battery boxes you want are the old type, they are harder and more resilient than the newer flap type. The boxes have top and bottom half's, the bottom one bolts to the helmet and the top one is held on with a very large rubber band (snoopy loop)
I wouldn't cannibalise your zooms though, the battery boxes used to be available separately although that is some time ago now. They still turn up second hand now and then. They are far superior to the "new improved" box.

 

[robjones]

The Zoom boxes you describe are exactly the sort I had back in the 1980s. Loss and theft (won't say from which caving club cottage) resulted in mid 1990s purchases of the soft flap inferior modern type. As I don't have a source of Zoom boxes, either second-hand old ones, or modern ones as spares, I'll go with the Speleo Nova box.

 

[Pete K]

I'm fairly certain that a look on the Petzl website at there spares PDF document will show zoom boxes still available. I was however unaware of a difference in them depending on age. Any outdoor stockist that sells Petzl/Lyon kit could order one for you.
I think the Nova boxes are better though, even if their attachment is not as good. Could always use long cable and put in suit pocket though.

 

[rhychydwr1]

It is impossible to buy 4.5v Duracells in the Rhondda.  Now that Rat Products has gone I had to go to Cheddar to buy these:

http://caveclimb.com/

 

[graham]

It is impossible to buy 4.5v Duracells in the Rhondda. Now that Rat Products has gone I had to go to Cheddar to buy these:

http://caveclimb.com/

Haven't you got a book describing how to make/buy one?

 

[rhychydwr1]

It is impossible to buy 4.5v Duracells in the Rhondda. Now that Rat Products has gone I had to go to Cheddar to buy these:

http://caveclimb.com/

Haven't you got a book describing how to make/buy one?

Never thought of that  :-\

 

[Joe Duxbury]

Old style petzl zoom battery boxes are ideal for flat pack 4.5v Duracells.

Stuart Kirby has loads of these for sale. At a reasonable price.

 

[SamT]

For what its worth - I'm just in the process of dismantling a 4.5v duracel pack, and using it to house one of the maplins 3 * AA battery holders so that I can use my petzl zoom battery box, to use AA batteries but still with the spade connectors on the top. I may post some photos when its done. At first glance it seems like its all going to fit nicely.

 

[potholer]

The last time I bought 3xAA holders from Maplin, they needed a slight modification to work properly.

There are little protrusions on the inside next to the positive contacts. They're there to prevent contact if cells are inserted the wrong way round, but were slightly too large, which meant that some types of cell just failed to make contact even when they were the right way round.
It just needed a slight trimming with a knife to sort that out, but because the contact was only just not being made, the problem wasn't visually obvious.

 

[van the man]

Stuart Kirby has loads of these for sale. At a reasonable price.

Sorry to sound ignorant but who/what is Stuart Kirkby, any chance of a link?

 

[McBad]

Stuart has (had? I'm well out of touch) a small business making rather fine caving lights and dabbling in other things that cavers need and find hard to get.

A quick web search brought back this contact information:

Stuart Kirby Caving and Mining Lamps Ltd., Pelgrove, Chapel Lane, Redmarley, Gloucestershire, GL19 3JF. +44 1531 650 226, fax +44 1531 650 012, web http://www.cavinglamps.com/.

I've no idea how current this is.  The website quoted doesn't look very promising.

Cheers,

M.

 

[underground]

For what its worth - I'm just in the process of dismantling a 4.5v duracel pack, and using it to house one of the maplins 3 * AA battery holders so that I can use my petzl zoom battery box, to use AA batteries but still with the spade connectors on the top. I may post some photos when its done. At first glance it seems like its all going to fit nicely.

Hmm, man tek it that's an old style box?

The reason I-and-I ask is because I-man's old beater Zoom is a 'flappy' one which has a 3*AA adapter inside it - but that's one specifically moulded to click into the flappy box. Could be repurposed though.

I-man would be interested to hear what the man will power 'pon the modded Duracell bizniz.

 

[hyweldavies]

Rob,

I'd be inclined to get one of the new Pezl LEDs. I use a Myo XP for all my caving these days. Lasts ages on 3x AA duracells, though you could use rechargables. The Tika XP is slightly smaller with the batteries and lamp bit in the same block, nearly as bright, uses AAAs, and a valid alternative.

Even buying a family set of 3 of one or other shouldn't break the bank too much.

Hywel

 

[robjones]

Hello Hywel,

I've already bought a pair of Speleotechnics Nova battery boxes.

Driven by my box of Oldham spares (a shame to waste them) and the cheapness of a Nova conversion compared to your suggestions - outfitting two growing boys for caving gets a bit pricey (at least for our family budget).

Even though the younger boy gets the elder boy's secondhand kit, I still find myself buying the elder boy an oversuit, furry, wetsox and wellies every eighteen months. This is pricey for about four trips a year (and takes quite a lo0t of justifying to a non-caving spouse...) so economies have to be made where they can.

Using Speleotechnics Nova battery boxes and secondhand Oldhams spares that I already possess works out at around ?10 per light, a saving of around ?75 overall comapred to buying two of the lights you recommend. I'm sure the ones you recommend are fine but there's a major streak of Cardiganshire meanness in me...

As such conversions might be relevant to some other forum users, I'll post my conclusions when I've finished both lights and we have had oppiortunities to field-test them.

Thanks again to everyone for their views and input!

 

[Sally-J]

This is a very well time discussuion since I'm converting one of my speleotechnics headlites to take AA batteries  I'm undecided whether to use a Nova or Petzl box. The flatpack batteries discussed may survive water but presumably my rechargeable AAs would not last too long subjected to water repeatedly. Do either of these boxes hold out the water better?

The nova box seems to come with the very plug socket I am trying to avoid. If I am wiring straight into the battery box, would you just bung up the plug socket and drill another hole for the wire?