BCA constitutional changes

alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
TheBitterEnd said:
What does the BCA constitution say about car parking, bolting, digging? There are a lot of things which might benefit from, say, a code of practice/ethics which are just not appropriate to be in a constitution.
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If you want ethics of Car parking then I'm sure the regional caving council is the best place to go. They will be the most "in touch" with landowner issues in the local area. Many regional councils have online access guides now, which run through all of the relevant things such as car parking and route finding to the entrance.

Bolting and Digging are also best sought out with the Regional Caving council.
We've had advise from a member of the Derbyshire bolting team, about the use of bolts which can be replaced with P bolts when the dig has been finished.
They are a wealth of information and if anything it would be great if more cavers could benefit from the years of experience of bolting some of these people have.

Regional caving councils have released information on Digging in a SSSI which provides many useful bits of information.

Personally, I don't believe that the BCA is the right place for a guide on "good practice and ethics" to come from. There are many different regional variations in "good practice" and "ethics" that a simplified document to cover the entire of the UK would just not cut it.

There are many lessons to be learnt from past events but it would be very difficult and horrific to dredge a lot of these up and put them in a document. Not suggesting that this would happen, but it's where some lessons can be learnt. I doubt you would have to look hard on this forum to find some "hot topics" to do some research on.
 
Bob Mehew

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
I am afraid this off topic but I can't let Alistar's opinion go unchallenged.
alastairgott said:
Bolting and Digging are also best sought out with the Regional Caving council.

We've had advise from a member of the Derbyshire bolting team, about the use of bolts which can be replaced with P bolts when the dig has been finished.
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I must point out that DCA follow the BCA anchor policy, use the anchors recommended by BCA and have both contributed to and received wisdom from the joint wealth of knowledge on anchors held by BCA.

alastairgott said:
Regional caving councils have released information on Digging in a SSSI which provides many useful bits of information.
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Only DCA and CNCC have released information on digging (and they do not marry up). 

One of BCA's role is to provide a vehicle for sharing of such experiences both good and bad and ensure its promulgation.  Whilst I accept advice on topics such as car parking at specific caves is not appropriate for BCA to promulgate, there is a lot of information which is and would be to the benefit of all cavers.
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
off topic as well, but, Fair challenge Bob.

Bob Mehew said:
I must point out that DCA follow the BCA anchor policy, use the anchors recommended by BCA and have both contributed to and received wisdom from the joint wealth of knowledge on anchors held by BCA.
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I guess it's chicken and egg Bob.
BCA have a policy, DCA follow it.
But DCA's list of bolters wont be the same as BCA's list of Bolters. There will be plenty more members of the BCA who can place bolts, but it doesn't mean that all of those can suddenly go out into Derbyshire and place bolts.

Bob Mehew said:
Only DCA and CNCC have released information on digging (and they do not marry up). 

One of BCA's role is to provide a vehicle for sharing of such experiences both good and bad and ensure its promulgation.[...] There is a lot of information which is and would be to the benefit of all cavers.
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And the BCA do a brilliant job. Especially on providing very useful information.
Cavers do have to go to their regional council first though, even where there is no information on digging. There may be site specific details which the regional council know that wouldn't figure to the BCA. Whether that be a surface feature or in an underground system.

It's not a bad thing that some have and some have not released information on digging. In fact, I quite like it, some difference in areas is good.
 
J

Jenny P

Active member
The advice on digging, particularly in SSSI's, has been derived from consultation between the regional council and their local Natural England (formerly English Nature), officers.  That's probably why there are some differences between the advice given by DCA and that given by CNCC.  In both cases, the local E.N. staff were involved in formulating the advice for their particular region and also in providing financial assistance to produce printed leaflets to hand out to cavers and caving clubs.  The differences are not important but will be partly because the type of land involved and and the land use are different - the point is that in both areas the cavers are working with the specialist conservation bodies.

Clearly not all regions work in the same way and, in the case of Cambrian Council, they now have a new body to liaise with:  Natural Resources Wales, instead of the old Countryside Commission for Wales.
 
NewStuff

NewStuff

New member
Jenny P said:
...in the case of Cambrian Council, they now have a new body to liaise with:  Natural Resources Wales, instead of the old Countryside Commission for Wales.
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Who in North Wales you have zero chance of gaining any traction with, with regard to underground activities.
 
cavemanmike

cavemanmike

Well-known member
I agree :confused: But we Are still trying. The huge collapse in the leete cave will open there eyes 👀 especially as they refused to let us undertake a small dig to investigate the cave because we "might" change the microclimate of the cave. Well the microclimate has definitely changed now :LOL:
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Having sought advice from a BCA council member whose opinion I greatly respect, I was finally able to complete my ballot form with a clear conscience. But when I sent it to the link given in the email which is (copied & pasted directly):

agm2017@bca?vote.online

I got an error message which says:

The message was not sent because of an error with the address:
agm@bca\u0010vote.online

Somewhere somebody mentioned something about a dodgy email address. Not sure where I go from here . . .
 
caving_fox

caving_fox

Active member
Pitlamp said:
Having sought advice from a BCA council member whose opinion I greatly respect, I was finally able to complete my ballot form with a clear conscience. But when I sent it to the link given in the email which is (copied & pasted directly):

agm2017@bca?vote.online

I got an error message which says:

The message was not sent because of an error with the address:
agm@bca\u0010vote.online

Somewhere somebody mentioned something about a dodgy email address. Not sure where I go from here . . .
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Pretty sure that's the known 'dodgy hyphen' issue - see the other BCA threads. The workaround is to manually type the address.

Reynard
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
OK thanks - will try that.

Mind you, if there is an issue like this, it might not hurt for BCA to send out another explanatory email directly to its full circulation list.

I mention this because the excellent forum I'm making use of here is a private forum; I'm grateful for any help other forum members have offered but relying on a private forum for BCA voting instructions is potentially open to abuse. Not for one moment am I suggesting that anyone has tried to be manipulative in this way, especially the forum owners. It's just that we don't want any more problems further down the line if BCA members feel they've not had an entirely fair say. Like most reasonably minded forum members I'll happily go along with the outcome of what I believe is a fair vote, whether or not I agree with it.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, please understand I wrote the above with the very best of intentions. If you're thinking of jumping down my throat, at least read it very carefully first.

I'd like to see BCA move on without unnecessary hassle for its officers, who (remember) are volunteers.
 
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