bca meeting 25/3 /2017

[droid]

A priority, rather than THE priority.

Read some of the posts on here, NewStuff. Many of the 'exploration' based posts are asking for information, and that information is normally archived somewhere....ie in a Library.

I accept that Kenilworth has put in his usual waffle and dig about 'egoism' but the general point is a good one.

 

[NewStuff]

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly that maintaining a library is right near the top of the list, no issue about that. No point in exploring something unless you record what was explored.

But surely a caving organisation that is not explicitly a library or conservation body should focus on caving?

 

[droid]

But surely a caving organisation that is not explicitly a library or conservation body should focus on caving?

Absolutely.

 

[Alex]

It sounds like the BCA is trying to run everything as one big expedition. This sort of survey library's and the like is perfect for expeditions where everyone is working to one goal... However in Britain that's not the case as people go caving for fun, as well as exploration so my simple question is it appropriate in this setting.

By the way, I am happy with the survey libraries it but I think people just need to remember to try and not run british caving as a caving expedition as not everyone has the same goals so its never going to work in reality.

I think its here were problems exist.

 

[droid]

I disagree.

BCA isn't a big organisation, but it runs itself as if it was: too many committee members, too much beurocracy, too many people trying to establish empires.

Solution: thin down the committees, simplify the Constitution and make the whole organisation more streamlined.

Won't happen. Too many vested interests.

 

[badger]

didn't see many people putting there hand up for positions on the bca at the agm

and if you think the people on the council would not give up their positions for their empire then I suggest you talk to them many would be more than happy for someone to volunteer themselves

so carry on knocking the bca and do nothing about it, you want to change it then do something about, its your association,

 

[NewStuff]

...you want to change it then do something about, its your association,

You know that bit where a vote was held? Yeah, that was people giving a shit and doing something. Badlad is doing something.

Look where it's got us. With only one exception I can think of being badlad's efforts, we're in the same place we were before, and I'm not surprised at apathy, given that it appears to make no difference to what actually happens.

So, remind me... why should people bother?

 

[droid]

How many people or clubs would be part of BCA if it wasn't for the insurance?

That might well explain part of the apathy NewStuff references.

 

[badger]

why should we bother, cause if we are not bothered the minority win.

so please those that at most vocal, carry on complaining, and whinging, but when nothing changed, look in the mirror (this is aimed at everyone, it is not personal). or like badlad try and do something about it. get involved,

when the postal (or by other means) vote comes out fill it in. send it back,

 

[NewStuff]

Why should people put in any effort is a few people can make all that effort seem like pissing in the wind?

You say get involved, look in the mirror... I did both, and look where it got me. One prat has decided that knowingly endangering my job is a legitimate tactic to try to silence me. Over caving. That's the levels that these they will stoop to. That's why they get labelled as dirty and underhanded, that's why most people will not get involved. Anything is fair game.

We decided we would rather go caving than get all pissed off that a few seem to have decided that the majority of those that voted are in fact wrong, and therefore nothings going to change. So we left the BCA and we go caving, and the BCA can sort itself, or not. Either way, I'll deal with any future political threats to me in my way, I'm done playing nice with them, and I can play far dirtier than they can imagine.

 

[Pegasus]

[admin]Can we please tone it down, thank you[/admin]

 

[notdavidgilmour]

The finances of the Tahdah "family" of companies seem like an absolute car crash.  Should the BCA really be gambling it's member's money?

Something that was also discussed at the BCA meeting, was the fact that individual members would have to subscribe (pay) for premium membership to enjoy full functionality of the software.  It would be interesting to know just how "functional" the software is without paying the premium, and also, how much premium membership would cost.

This also poses another question;  If something was to happen to the software provider, who would be responsible for refunding the members who had paid for premium membership?  Would those members just be left out of pocket or would the BCA be obliged to refund them?  If the latter was the case, this is pushing the amount of financial risk to the BCA higher and higher.

Comments at the meeting suggesting that the BCA could afford the financial loss did get my goat a little I must say.  It is very easy to gamble with money that doesn't belong to you.

Sorry for dragging this one up again, but my concerns regarding Tahdah AKA Blah d Blah have become a reality.  I only hope the BCA haven't thrown too much of "our" money at them.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/blah-d-blah-boss-says-13744157

 

[Stuart France]

Members of BCA's executive stated at their council meeting last Saturday 7th October that the Tahdah / Blah d Blah etc training management software companies were now financially secure, having obtained a recent government grant, and that although no contract had yet been signed by BCA that the way was now open to sign one.

I paraphrase, of course, but this is as I remember it unfolding.  The council meeting was digitally recorded.

 

[davel]

See http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/blah-d-blah-boss-says-13744157

Dave

 

[Ian Adams]

Can someone, who knows, clarify how much (if anything) we lost please?

Thanks.

Ian

 

[Stuart France]

Regarding the above North Wales press article about a recent winding-up order brought against Blah D Blah and comments from director Neil Rylance.

A Neil Rylance has a terminated directorship of a North Wales residential care services company called Touchstones12 recorded at Companies House as recently as 21st September 2017.

A Neil Rylance is also a current director of Blah D Blah Design Ltd, Pathfinder Systems Ltd, and Tahdah Verified Ltd.  These are North Wales companies involved in advertising, software design, and IT services respectively.  As it happens, Tahdah used to be called Pathfinder Systems Ltd.  The current Pathfinder Systems Ltd is a different entity with a different company registration number.  Acting BCA Treasurer Robin Weare presented a "due diligence" report to BCA council on the financial health and prospects of these companies.  Like Robin, you too can read their accounts and filing histories for yourself at companieshouse.gov.uk

I have asked questions in BCA council more than once this year about BCA proposing to enter into a long-term business relationship with Tahdah.  I have attended all the council meetings since mid-2016, and I have been told each time that:
(a) no money has been paid by BCA to any of these companies
(b) no contract has been signed by BCA with any of these companies.

So that's alright then.

 

[nickwilliams]

I can confirm that no contract has been signed and no money has been paid by BCA to any of the Pathfinder group companies.

 

[Ian Adams]

Good News 

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Still, wasn't this a no brainer to use them about 6 months ago as 'the mountain teams were using them?' I recall that some alarms were being raised though. Anyway, glad that no money was lost.
As an aside, how much were they charging?

 

[mikem]

Apparently it wasn't, as the committee couldn't come to a consensus. Costs etc are in the minutes:
http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=about:documents:council_meetings:council_minutes_2017-03-25.pdf

Interesting that there appears to be no mention of this by BMC or UKClimbing...

Mike