BCA Outdoors for All

[Fjell]

" Moderator comment: 5 Posts moved to this new thread."

Please tell me the BCA has joined the “Outdoors for All” initiative. I can’t see it to date, but maybe I missed it. Every outdoor activity I can think of is a member, certainly the non-caving ones I belong to. This is the umbrella group campaigning for access. It has MP’s sponsoring it.

Outdoors For All: A manifesto for the outdoor sector - The British Mountaineering Council

Thirty six leading national governing bodies and environmental organisations have joined together to support an Outdoors For All manifesto, seeking to extend responsible access to more green and blue landscapes.

www.thebmc.co.uk

 

[ChrisB]

Please tell me the BCA has joined the “Outdoors for All” initiative

I can't tell you that, as I don't know. It looks a worthwhile thing, but I'm a little confused. The pdf download on the BMC site doesn't have any contact details, and https://outdoorsforall.co.uk/ seems to be a different organisation?

 

[Fjell]

This is better. I think the cunning thing to do would be to call the canoeists who seem to have kicked it off.

Outdoors For All – Outdoor Swimming Society

OSS joins 35 organisations call for access to outdoors for all including swimming. Outlines manifesto, proposals, how to achieve, promote, take step forward for Right to Swim outdoors

www.outdoorswimmingsociety.com

A manifesto for ‘millions of people’

Forty Two national governing bodies and environmental organisations joined together at a parliamentary event to celebrate the Outdoors For All manifesto. The event was held at the Houses of Parliament…

paddleuk.org.uk

 

[Fjell]

There is some sort of charity called the same thing, which isn’t it. This is a campaign run by the national organisations. They have cross-party support so I think something is def going to happen. Be nice if caves were on the agenda this time.

 

[ChrisB]

call the canoeists who seem to have kicked it off

As it turns out I know the person at Paddle UK who is mentioned in your link so have sent him an email.

This thread, however, is probably not the best place to raise general questions about BCA. I will try to answer them, but have only been involved in BCA for 2 months and have spent that learning about the financial position.

 

[Fjell]

We had the other thread on What Did The BCA Do For Us, but it’s not overly helpful.

Thanks for contacting that guy. I would indeed like to see some serious discussion on access and legislation, but maybe led by someone at BCA with the appointed job.

Getting legal access to caves is not going to be trivial.

 

[Badlad]

BCA has overlooked the advantages of seeking relationships with other like minded organisations for most of its history. To some extent the problem has been a lack of volunteers to effectively forge those relationships. The other significant problem is that neither the executive or council have ever really bought in to doing so. From my experience BCA prefer to look inwards rather than outwards.

To me it has always been a no brainer. Many sister like organisations are far larger than BCA with much larger resources, paid full time staff, etc. That can be really helpful and save duplication of effort in many things. Working out how new legislation might effect clubs huts for example, are one of many common issues many associations face. If campaigning for rights, recognition from government, general lobbying for outdoor sport, then relationships with organisations with more resources can be enormously helpful. Without them the BCA voice is so small, or non existent that it isn't even heard.

During the three years I was BCA CRoW Liaison Officer I established relationships with the organisations listed below. This included face to face meetings, phone conversations, participation in mutual campaigns, etc. I visited Westminster on behalf of British Caving. Took MPs caving and generally was in touch with as many people who were in a position to support caving as I could find. When I stood down I don't think anyone really maintained these relationships and BCA slipped into obscurity again.

British Mountaineering
British Canoeing
Sport & Recreational Alliance
Outdoor Industries Association
British Orienteering
Land Access and Recreational Association
APPG on Mountaineering
Campaign for National Parks
Others I have probably forgotten.

Building these sorts of relationships should be a high priority for our national body but it just isn't. I doubt very much that BCA has joined 'Outdoors for All' to answer your question. Not only won't it have joined, it probably won't even be known to BCA and therefore not even discussed at council. Worse still, I expect BCA is so low on the radar of other organisations that no one even thought to invite BCA to join, that is a sad state of affairs I reckon.

 

[tdobson]

> Took MPs caving

I know this is slightly offtopic Badlad, but this sounds entertaining (and valuable, but definitely entertaining).

Have you shared more of a story in any other threads or reports?

 

[Jenny P]

I have already asked the BCA C&A Working Group to raise the issue of BCA joining the Outdoors for All campaign so this should come up at the BCA Council Meeting next Tuesday. Presumably it should come as part of the WG's report to Council.

It has been rather difficult to track down how to join but, as ChrisB suggests, contacting someone from a group which is already involved is a good way to start.

If BCA had still been a member of the Sport and Recreation Alliance (SARA) we might have caught wind of this sooner but the fee for being a member of SARA seemed very high for what we were getting at the time so I believe we dropped out a few years ago. It's always difficult to work out whether membership of such an organisation is really value for money so I leave it to our Treasurer to advise on this.

 

[Badlad]

> Took MPs caving

I know this is slightly offtopic Badlad, but this sounds entertaining (and valuable, but definitely entertaining).

Have you shared more of a story in any other threads or reports?

VIP caving trip to GG - press release

MPS VISIT BRITAIN?S BIGGEST CAVERN, SUPPORTING CAMPAIGN FOR OPEN ACCESS TO CAVE SYSTEMS Clapham, North Yorkshire, 30 December 2015 TWO Conservative MPs and a leading QC have paid a visit to Britain?s highest waterfall ? the mighty cascade that tumbles down the 365-foot entrance shaft of...

ukcaving.com

The press release at the head of this thread followed by the usual squabbling over the CRoW issue

 

[mikem]

Ben Seal at paddle UK (BCU), who happens to be water and recreation chair of SARA, or Catherine Flitcroft at BMC, seem to be the people to speak to. [SARA starts at £200 per year, but depends on turnover]

 

[Badlad]

> Took MPs caving

I know this is slightly offtopic Badlad, but this sounds entertaining (and valuable, but definitely entertaining).

Have you shared more of a story in any other threads or reports?

A couple more weighty threads of my efforts on behalf of the BCA. You may find them interesting, you may well not. At the heart of the CRoW issue was that British Caving was little understood by those in positions of authority so I took it as part of my role to promote caving where ever possible. The help and support I received from other outdoor organisations was crucial and much appreciated especially when elements within British caving were so destructive.

Premature action on CRoW?

Being fearless, but not wishing to be censured, I hope it is OK to bring this to members' attention, particularly to anybody involved with BCA. Some of you may think of accusing me of mischief, which is why I have thought long and hard about it. Please accept that all I want to do is to ensure...

ukcaving.com

BCA CRoW Liaison Officer report to the AGM

CRoW Liaison Officer Report to 2017 BCA AGM Apologies in advance for both the length of this report and the criticism it poses at times. I applaud the voluntary efforts of many council members of BCA especially the chairman who works very hard on our behalf. The BCA campaign to confirm...

ukcaving.com

 

[Badlad]

Ben Seal at paddle UK (BCU), who happens to be water and recreation chair of SARA, or Catherine Flitcroft at BMC, seem to be the people to speak to. [SARA starts at £200 per year, but depends on turnover]

I met up with Ben and Cath several times, both individually and at wider meetings of outdoor organisations. Both were extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I don't think anyone from British caving has been in touch with them since I stood down.

 

[Badlad]

If you have the time here is a seminar from the SRA. All on BCA exec and council would do well to watch it. It was the basis for my proposal several years ago to set up a vision group. Unfortunately it came to nothing.

 

[ChrisB]

Ben Seal at paddle UK (BCU), who happens to be water and recreation chair of SARA

Ben is the person I've emailed.

I have already (prior to this thread) put rejoining SARA on the Agenda for tomorrow's Council meeting.

 

[Badlad]

Ben is the person I've emailed.

I have already (prior to this thread) put rejoining SARA on the Agenda for tomorrow's Council meeting.

Be aware that just joining SRA will do nothing for BCA. You'll need to understand what SRA can actually do for you. You will need someone on council to actively engage with them. That will take (volunteer) resource which will need to be allocated. Has BCA got that available?

I remember around the time I first got involved with BCA, the treasurer was questioning the point of being a member of SRA. No one engaged with them and BCA did not see any advantage of being a member. I seem to remember they reduced the level of membership but remained a member. When I became the CRoW Liaison Officer I contacted SRA (together with other organisations) and found them very helpful towards the issues council had tasked me with. It did require quite some effort in terms of engagement. I visited them at their offices in London, I attended a meeting there along with other organisations. I corresponded regularly with them on access issues. I found them very helpful at that time in helping to formulate briefings and in liaising with other outdoor organisations. I probably cannot emphasise enough that you have to put in effort in order to get anything out of the relationship.

I hope you'll find this helpful.

 

[Bob Mehew]

The reason why I back rejoining SRA is that they almost certainly have documentation advising National Sporting Bodies on things like insurance, legal matters and so forth. But you can only get access if you are a member. Plus if we remained a member, we could have brought up CRoW and possibly got their help in pushing our line. I do agree that BCA needs someone to push CRoW forward, especially now there is a general election in progress. And even more so if the next government is formed by the Labour Party.

 

[Russell Myers]

BCA joined SRA by agreement of Council at this month's meeting

file:///C:/Users/rmyer/Downloads/DRAFT-BCA-Council-Minutes-14-May-2024.pdf

Now we need a caver to step forward and take the lead !

 

[ChrisB]

file:///C:/Users/rmyer/Downloads/DRAFT-BCA-Council-Minutes-14-May-2024.pdf

The download is automatic so that address is where your computer downloaded to.

See https://british-caving.org.uk/documents/draft-minutes-may/