Best caving region in the UK?
- Thread starter thehungrytroglobite
- Start date
hyweldavies
Active member
For me it has to be South Wales, largely because I mostly enjoy big systems where you explore, and the physical aspects of climbing or traversing without needing much in the way of gear really appeal to me. Also, there is still huge potential for 3 or 4 major systems as yet unexplored: Llygad Llwchwr catchment, Ffrydiau Twrch catchment and the missing 2/3 of Dan yr Ogof are each potentially as extensive as anything in the country.
Yorkshire does also have a lot of great sporting trips for those more inclined to dangle on ropes as well as a couple of bigger explory type systems too, so is a legit choice
But for all that, the most fun caving I've done in the UK have been the caves of Fermanagh in northern Ireland, so for sheer enjoyment that takes some beating too
Yorkshire does also have a lot of great sporting trips for those more inclined to dangle on ropes as well as a couple of bigger explory type systems too, so is a legit choice
But for all that, the most fun caving I've done in the UK have been the caves of Fermanagh in northern Ireland, so for sheer enjoyment that takes some beating too
I'm surprised to see North Wales even in this vote. Never mind having 3 out of 127 votes actually supporting it!
Whilst I live in North Wales, and cave here too, it is most definitely not worthy of this ballot considering the extent that is within the Dales, South Wales or the Peaks!
My favourite cave in the whole of the country, and for its variety is Ogof Hesp Alyn. It has a bit of water (a short canal and 2 sumps), a lot of mud, and a myriad of passage shapes and sizes. It has pitches, and the 'unknown' element as to where all the water goes in between the gorge and the tunnel. It is a tough trip to the end and is not everybody's cup of tea.
However, this doesn't mean it should be the best caving region! North Wales has no proper caving huts, it has a lot of politics, poor access (perhaps more communication issues) and the caves are generally very muddy and horrible.
Personally, I'd say North Wales should rank somewhere near to Mendips.. a little above Mendip, but somewhere near. We may not have the hunters, but we have the Glan! A fine establishment to hear a caving tale or two..
This thread, ultimately, is always going to be biased. Based on the areas people voting cave the most or live...
My vote goes to the Yorkshire Dales. Simply head up to the dales without a plan, go to Inglesport or Bernies now it's re-opened and hatch a plan over breakfast wih your team. Book a permit (if needed) on the CNCC website, check what you need and have a grand day out. There are plenty of books and resources to inspire, and usually plenty of cavers about to advise..
Whilst I live in North Wales, and cave here too, it is most definitely not worthy of this ballot considering the extent that is within the Dales, South Wales or the Peaks!
My favourite cave in the whole of the country, and for its variety is Ogof Hesp Alyn. It has a bit of water (a short canal and 2 sumps), a lot of mud, and a myriad of passage shapes and sizes. It has pitches, and the 'unknown' element as to where all the water goes in between the gorge and the tunnel. It is a tough trip to the end and is not everybody's cup of tea.
However, this doesn't mean it should be the best caving region! North Wales has no proper caving huts, it has a lot of politics, poor access (perhaps more communication issues) and the caves are generally very muddy and horrible.
Personally, I'd say North Wales should rank somewhere near to Mendips.. a little above Mendip, but somewhere near. We may not have the hunters, but we have the Glan! A fine establishment to hear a caving tale or two..
This thread, ultimately, is always going to be biased. Based on the areas people voting cave the most or live...
My vote goes to the Yorkshire Dales. Simply head up to the dales without a plan, go to Inglesport or Bernies now it's re-opened and hatch a plan over breakfast wih your team. Book a permit (if needed) on the CNCC website, check what you need and have a grand day out. There are plenty of books and resources to inspire, and usually plenty of cavers about to advise..
PeteHall
Moderator
According to https://www.ukcaves.co.uk/
(Which is not completely up to date)
North Wales has three caves over 1km, totalling 10km in length.
Meanwhile Mendip has 19 caves over 1km, totalling 54km in length.
So by what metric is North Wales "a little bit above Mendip"?
For comparison:
Devon: 3 caves over 1km totalling 5.7km
Forest of Dean: 5 caves over 1km totalling 44km
North York Moors: 1 cave over 1km, totalling 2.5km
Northern Dales: 65 caves over 1km, totalling over 300km
Peak District: 11 caves over 1km totalling 42km
South Wales: 26 caves over 1km, totalling 262km
Based on the above, the ranking of cave regions based on total length of caves over 1km would be:
1. Yorkshire Dales
2. South Wales
3. Mendip
4. Forest of Dean
5. Peak District
6. North Wales
7. Devon
8. North York Moors
For number caves over 1 km, the ranking would be:
1. Yorkshire Dales
2. South Wales
3. Mendip
4. Peak District
5. Forest of Dean
6. North Wales
7. Devon
8. North York Moors
I know that this isn't a perfect metric, but it's a pretty good guide.
Obviously Yorkshire Dales win by every metric and South Wales in 2nd place, as per the votes.
But why are there more votes for the Peak District than Mendip and Forest of Dean combined? My guess would be the large population centres making the Peak more accessible to more people.
Bob Cromer
Member
So by what metric is North Wales "a little bit above Mendip"?
Sheer quality
Sheer quality
Rob
Well-known member
How have i spent more than 20 years caving in the UK without knowing about this website!?!
I note no uploads since 2016, is there a plan to pass the buck to a team who may be interested to renew it?
SqueezyPete
Member
Northern Ireland allows you to do some international caving in the space of one trip. Can't beat that in England.
Yes you can.....3 Counties system lets you pass into a very foreign place
PeteHall
Moderator
There are several caves in FoD that are right on the England/Wales border, though I'm not sure how many (if any) actually cross it yet.
By the time we've finished Redhouse, perhaps that will be an international trip!
Alex
Well-known member
My Personal ranking would be similar, but not exact as ease of access comes into it a lot for me.
1. Yorkshire Dales - Lots of caves, almost all easy accessible.
2. South Wales - My kind of caving (horizontal caves) and big huge passages and long crawls, however harder to access.
3. Peak District - Lots of variety easy access provided you have an adjustable spanner.
4. North York Moors - Depends what this area includes but there are at least 5 if not more caves longer than 1km, if you include places like Fairy holes, cut-throat caverns, Windy hole etc. (I don't class these as Dales caves so should go here?).
5. Mendip - Would rank higher if everything was not all locked!
6. Forest of Dean - A few awesome caves, all hard to access, sounds like you still need to send off for keys and pay deposits/leader trips.
7. Scotland - Assynt - Has some awesome caves here. How-come this was not on the list? - Although most can be done on a long weekend, the access is easy.
8. North Wales - Has two caves? And one is a muddy s-hole lol.
9. Devon - Although access is not too bad, you can do all the worthwhile caves in a weekend, it's also a long way from everywhere.
1. Yorkshire Dales - Lots of caves, almost all easy accessible.
2. South Wales - My kind of caving (horizontal caves) and big huge passages and long crawls, however harder to access.
3. Peak District - Lots of variety easy access provided you have an adjustable spanner.
4. North York Moors - Depends what this area includes but there are at least 5 if not more caves longer than 1km, if you include places like Fairy holes, cut-throat caverns, Windy hole etc. (I don't class these as Dales caves so should go here?).
5. Mendip - Would rank higher if everything was not all locked!
6. Forest of Dean - A few awesome caves, all hard to access, sounds like you still need to send off for keys and pay deposits/leader trips.
7. Scotland - Assynt - Has some awesome caves here. How-come this was not on the list? - Although most can be done on a long weekend, the access is easy.
8. North Wales - Has two caves? And one is a muddy s-hole lol.
9. Devon - Although access is not too bad, you can do all the worthwhile caves in a weekend, it's also a long way from everywhere.
Tritim230
Well-known member
On the Forest of Dean, just for clarity. Access is easy, for all caves besides Otter just email permits@fodccag.org.uk. For Otter book on line via the RFDCC website. The reason the caves are locked is due to a unique situation whereby the mineral rights, ie anything underground, are administered by the Deputy Gaveller of Forestry England and for that reason a permit system is required. Our relationship with the Deputy Gaveller is excellent. Permission is almost always granted for digs on the Forestry Commission land that would be impossible in similar environments nationally. As for deposits, the only cave we are asking for a deposit is Wet Sink. The keys cost Ā£50 a time and if lost or inadvertently taken away, it creates a nightmare of firstly losing keys for others to use, and then access is compromised with 'rogue' keys. Otter and Redhouse are closed in winter, only because they are flooded. Redhouse is temporary closed for obvious reasons as we are mid exploration and have a huge amount of conservation and survey work still to finish. Sadly, because of the rains there is absolutely no chance this will be completed before next spring. FoDCCAG has implemented a key safe for Wet Sink right near the cave and is trying to get an online booking system established. The aim is to make everything easier for visiting parties. If you have any problems please PM me. Thanks. Dr Tim Nichols, C&A Officer, FoDCCAG
Chris Curry
Member
Fairyholes and Cutthroat are definitely Northern Dales not North York Moors, @Alex ... 50 miles away across the Tees Lowlands!
North York Moors has Jenga/Excalibur at over 3.5km as well as endless windypits and mines to its name though. And the legendary Cawthorn Master Streamway!
PeteHall
Moderator
For anyone who isn't aware, the reason access to Otter is more restrictive is because of a tidal sump about an hour into the cave. A warden system exists with times and dates set out in advance, allowing trips when the tide time and height are suitable. The warden's job is to ensure that the group aren't trapped in the cave, or drowned by the tidal sump.
Over winter the entrance series floods completely for months at a time, so no trips at all are possible.
Despite the obvious restrictions this causes, it's very much worth getting a trip booked in; it is one of the finest caves in the country!
Alex
Well-known member
I always get mixed up and call that area north york moors too, as it's more north than what I would consider the Dales, and as it's north and well is moorland I therefor refer to it as North York(shire) Moors in my head. I guess the area I am thinking of is actually Northern Dales, but that was not on the list! So, I grouped it in North York Moors being on the same latitude and all and just as much of a pain to get to for me.Fairyholes and Cutthroat are definitely Northern Dales not North York Moors, @Alex ... 50 miles away across the Tees Lowlands!
So to summerise what I am putting at 4. is North york moors and Northern dales.
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Northern dales isn't just Yorkshire, which stops at the Tees... North York moors are north of York, there are also lots more moors in Yorkshire dales (which includes parts of Lancashire, Cumbria and north / west Yorkshire), plus south and even east Yorkshire!
Also Assynt, applecross and Argyll are all in Scotland
Also Assynt, applecross and Argyll are all in Scotland
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davel
Active member
I'll rise to the bait ...
I would have you know, sir, that the late Cris Ebbs' publication Caves of North Wales has descriptions of some 275 caves, some of which are not muddy at all! (Some might have seaweed in them though.)
Ogof Llyn Parc contains more than 4 km of passage and has a fine streamway. Admittedly, access is non-trivial as it involves a 92 m mine shaft, plus two further 18 m shafts before the cave is reached, but I think we can safely ignore that for the purpose of this discussion.
thehungrytroglobite
Well-known member
Assynt is on the list!
thehungrytroglobite
Well-known member
Very interesting to see everyone's personal ratings.
Mine would be:
1) Yorkshire Dales
2) South Wales
3) Peak District
4) Assynt
5) Applecross
6) North Wales
I am yet to do proper caving in Mendip (only did Pierre's when I was there for CHECC), and I am yet to visit the North York Moors, Forest of Dean or Fermanagh so can't really rate any of them. Wasn't sure which one to put higher between Assynt and Applecross. The caves in Applecross were prettier with astonishing formations but Assynt wins for versatility because of having a (small amount) of SRT and because of the sheer size of the Great Northern Time Machine. If Applecross gets a few pitches in it, maybe it will beat Assynt for me.
Mine would be:
1) Yorkshire Dales
2) South Wales
3) Peak District
4) Assynt
5) Applecross
6) North Wales
I am yet to do proper caving in Mendip (only did Pierre's when I was there for CHECC), and I am yet to visit the North York Moors, Forest of Dean or Fermanagh so can't really rate any of them. Wasn't sure which one to put higher between Assynt and Applecross. The caves in Applecross were prettier with astonishing formations but Assynt wins for versatility because of having a (small amount) of SRT and because of the sheer size of the Great Northern Time Machine. If Applecross gets a few pitches in it, maybe it will beat Assynt for me.
