Box Quarry Backdoor

[wormster]

Access to backdoor has been fenced off.

See here:

http://www.darkplaces.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=11697

 

[Smiley Alan]

thanks for usful link .

does'nt look  like the fence can  stop poeple . probly get brocken , police will get involed , start of problems prehaps .

 

[cap n chris]

It's interesting to note that one of the posts on the Darkplaces site wrongly states that there is an access agreement. This is incorrect. There is no authorised access to Box Quarry. All access is unauthorised. Denial of access is generally not enforced, though. There is a difference. It falls into the category of a legal device to indemnify the landowner.

As Smiley Alan states this could be the start of a new era because if the brand new fence is broken (criminal damage) then the owners will indeed notify the police who are duty-bound to attend and anyone on the wrong side of it will need to explain themselves as they'd be obvious candidates to interview regarding breaking and entering. I suspect the situation there will be escalating very soon.

 

[Brains]

Many people doing a through trip from Jacks will find themselves on the wrong side and probably not wish to back track.
Additionaly there is a grille outside the fence area that gives access to quite a dangerous area of the quarry, which may also be popular with bats. All round bad feeling about this, locals arent famous for enjoying restricted access or a tolerant attitude to fences and gates!

 

[cap n chris]

Are you saying they are routinely engaged in criminal damage?

 

[wormster]

AFAIK until now going in through Backdoor was considered trespass, from now on it *could* be classed as criminal damage

 

[Brains]

Are you saying they are routinely engaged in criminal damage?

The gates at Box are routinely damaged, the gates on Browns Folly are routinely attacked, the access to sands Quarry is routinely attacked. Some gates are completely detroyed and removed, others only have bars cut and bent. Box is akin to a vandalised rubbish tip, with not just litter trails on the popular routes but masses of spray paint on every surface and stacked deads pulled down and scattered around, artefacts smashed or stolen. Only at browns has anyone tried to counteract the destruction, and he has been the subject of villification and harrasment by both locals and the wider urbex element.
The fate of this fence at this location is probably destruction without consultation... future barriers may fair better?!
I stand by my oroginal statement 

 

[mrdetail]

It'll be interesting what the reaction etc... is here. In the other locations mentioned gating etc... Has tended to be from corporate landowner, not from someone in a private residence.

 

[cap n chris]

Are you saying they are routinely engaged in criminal damage?

The gates at Box are routinely damaged, the gates on Browns Folly are routinely attacked, the access to sands Quarry is routinely attacked. Some gates are completely detroyed and removed, others only have bars cut and bent. Box is akin to a vandalised rubbish tip, with not just litter trails on the popular routes but masses of spray paint on every surface and stacked deads pulled down and scattered around, artefacts smashed or stolen. Only at browns has anyone tried to counteract the destruction, and he has been the subject of villification and harrasment by both locals and the wider urbex element.
The fate of this fence at this location is probably destruction without consultation... future barriers may fair better?!
I stand by my oroginal statement 

So that'll be a yes, then.

 

[cap n chris]

My hunch is that Britain's largest bat hibernaculum will be more secure than Fort Knox within five years, if what you're saying above is true.

 

[crickleymal]

I was under the impression that the people who own the tennis courts didn't own the quarry.
Another question is how long does a path have to be in use before it becomes a right of way?

 

[wormster]

Under section 31 of the Highways Act 1980
To establish that a way has become a right of way by means of presumed dedication it is necessary to show firstly that there has been uninterrupted use by the public (not necessarily the same people all the time) over a period of 20 years in the belief that that use was as of right. Deciding who 'the public' are can sometimes be difficult and may depend on the facts of the case. But in general it should be people other than those working for the landowner concerned, and the belief that use was as of right excludes use which was known to be with the permission or licence of the landowner. The period of 20 years is counted back from the date on which the public's right was first brought into question, for example through the erection of a fence or locking of a gate across the way, however long ago that date was. Evidence of use, or of interruptions of use, since that date is not relevant to the existence of the right of way at the date it was interrupted.

 

[crickleymal]

So in theory at least there is a public right of way to the Backdoor. Mind you I don't have the time or resources to try to prove it.

 

[wormster]

It's not as clear cut as 20 years uninterrupted use, common law also applies - which is tortuous to say the least  :read:

 

[royfellows]

Without getting into legal arguments or rights and wrongs there is a national history of failed denial of access to popular underground places which goes back to the 1980s when the then Forestry Commission Wales attempted to seal off the mines in the Gwydir Forest. Welded RSJs were cut through with petrol driven angle grinders which clearly demonstrates the ease with which a place can be opened up compared with the trouble and expense of resealing.

It was a regular thing at Cwmystwyth in the days of Crown Estate ownership for the grills to be cut within a matter of days of them being expensively resealed which involved welding equipment being transported over hillside. Upon the acquisition by CMT I personally cut bars in 5 minutes with a good HS steel hacksaw.

This sort of thing becomes a war of attrition were the landowner faces mounting costs  in fighting a war he cannot win. The Wildlife and Countryside Act put an end to poured concrete, yet even that can be broken though.

All of this sort of thing is very unfortunate.

 

[crickleymal]

I can see both sides here. The people who own the house backing onto the quarry must get pissed off with the frequent usage of the Backdoor and especially with the people who just go there to drink. Personally if it were me I'd just plant a screen of leylandii and a BFO fence around the tennis court to give some privacy.

 

[royfellows]

I can see both sides here. The people who own the house backing onto the quarry must get pissed off with the frequent usage of the Backdoor and especially with the people who just go there to drink. Personally if it were me I'd just plant a screen of leylandii and a BFO fence around the tennis court to give some privacy.

That is possibly the most sensible solution that anyone will come up with.