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caesium magnetometers

whitelackington

New member
Recently at Silbury Hill a caesium magnetometer has been used,
a large unknown Roman Settlement has been discovered.

Would one of these caesium magnetometers be any good at shallow cave locating,
such as Upper Flood Swallet?
 

graham

New member
How do they work?

What principles do they utilise?

What features are they actually locating?
 

ChrisB

Well-known member
See

http://www.geomatrix.co.uk/CSTHEORY.PDF

The main use seems to be in archeology. I am not sure how they would work for large voids at some depths?
 

finster

New member
There another type method, not sure what its called, it uses the sound waves to measure resistantance of matter below the surface.. Basically you place probes in the ground at certain intervals with electronic kit attached to the probe for measuring resistance then twat the probes with a hammer. The theory is that the sound wave travels through the rock or no rock and bouces back giving a measurement of resistance?? from this you can work out soil and rock density and if there are any voids?? Basic Seismic tool??? I've seen it used but not sure to what success?
 

francis

New member
whitelackington said:
I recall there is a pot in The Yorkhire Dales called Magnetometer :-\

Magnetometer pot (by Pennyghent?), found by the NPC by using a magnetometer to find the railway track that was covering it to prevent sheep falling in I think.

Francis
 

whitelackington

New member
Les W said:
cap 'n chris said:
.. or perhaps cattle?...
In the Yorkshire Dales...
Nah, I'm certain it is sheep  ;)

Surely, the preventing of HUMANS from plumiting should be most important :blink:

Spell check again refuses to work
good job I am not ddddddddddddddddddddddixlleck
 

whitelackington

New member
Les W said:
whitelackington said:
I think but do not KNOW
that caesium is radioactive :eek:
As you are sat in front of your computer, whilst connected to t'interweb, why not have a look at this online resource and then you will know.  (y) :sneaky:

Thanks for that Les, it seems that it is not radioactive.
One of its interesting properties is that it is a liquid metal at room temperature,
suppose it depends on how hot you like your room :clap:

Spell check now working but wishes me to spell Caesium the American way, why?
 
A

Antony B

Guest
Magnetic surveys are used to target ferrous material .... such as an iron railway track .... so no, a magnetometer would be no use in directly locating caves in limestone as the physical properties of void would have no influence on the instrument. As far as i'm aware the caesium in the magnetometers is not radioactive ..... if it is then i suspect that i might glow in the dark by now :alien:!

finster said:
There another type method, not sure what its called, it uses the sound waves to measure resistantance of matter below the surface.. Basically you place probes in the ground at certain intervals with electronic kit attached to the probe for measuring resistance then twat the probes with a hammer. The theory is that the sound wave travels through the rock or no rock and bouces back giving a measurement of resistance?? from this you can work out soil and rock density and if there are any voids?? Basic Seismic tool??? I've seen it used but not sure to what success?

Finster seems to have incorporated three geophysical methods into one .... Seismics, Resistivity and Gravity surveys ... all of which are applicable when geophysically void hunting. Gravity surveys can tell you if there is a localised mass deficiency relating to an airfilled cave, resistivity can tell you if there are any highly resistive areas that could represent to caves, while crosshole seismics (between boreholes) can detect cave by locating low velocity zones. 

Antony

 
In archaeology magnetometers are used to find areas of ancient burning, slag, metal and anything else with a magnetic field and have no application to finding caves.
 

Ed W

Member
Well, Anthony B is probably correct that magnetometers are not much use at finding caves in Limestone, but you can get caves (quite big ones) in other rocks, and at least in the case of lava tubes magnetometers appear to be exteremly useful in detecting voids.  Although not conclusive from the point of view of anyone actually entering the caves as yet, Caesium magnetometry has been used in Iceland to predict the existence of at least 400m of passage beyond the lava seal that ends the large Stefanshellir system.  The results are definitiely not ambiguous, and the Icelandic Speleological Society have even been so bold to name the cave - Hulduhellir.

Though I was involved in the field work, I am not expert enough to know how this works, other than a few sketchy details.  Essentially the magnetometer picks up the interface between the rock (which became magnetised when it was liquid) and the air in the cave.  This provides a specific response typical of cave passages.  It shoudl also be noted that the Hallmundahraun lava flow provides almost ideal conditions for employing the technique with little surface relief and large (20m diameter) tubes only 10 or so meters down.

If you want to learn more try tthe two Laki Underground reports from 2000 & 2001 authored by Dr Chris Wood et al from Bournemouth University / Shepton Mallet Caving Club.
 
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