Cave damage

Peter Burgess

New member
I was there the day it happened. On our ticket we had said we were going to call by the T&J on our way to somewhere else. It was OK when we saw it. We got a grilling when we got back to Penwyllt, but the case never got to court. Was a culprit ever found? The reason the bottom got knocked off might be because it is so easy to stand next to it to have your photo taken. The stal being at head height, it doesn't take much to slip or get pushed into it. That's just a hunch.

 

gus horsley

New member
Peter Burgess said:
I was there the day it happened. On our ticket we had said we were going to call by the T&J on our way to somewhere else. It was OK when we saw it. We got a grilling when we got back to Penwyllt, but the case never got to court. Was a culprit ever found? The reason the bottom got knocked off might be because it is so easy to stand next to it to have your photo taken. The stal being at head height, it doesn't take much to slip or get pushed into it. That's just a hunch.

I remember this was the "official" line of reasoning.  However, the stal had a ring of tent pegs with tape around it, so somebody must have crossed the tape.
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Fixing stal: N(B)CA Cave Conservation Handbook contains quite a lot of useful tips on this topic but here's some from my own experience.

If the stal is a clean break (i.e. simple "snapped" stalactite, for example) and is clean and dry then superglue works perfectly, giving an almost invisible repair; superglue also works on damp calcite and is really the easiest option for lightweight items - it usually fixes quickly so if a piece of stal needs to be held in situ while the glue sets this is easily done with a steady hand.

For larger pieces of stal (i.e. curtain sections) which are heavy, superglue can be put to one side in favour of araldite. There are quite a few problems with araldite, however, the chief ones being:

* It's messy to mix together
* It requires a methodical approach since the mixing board needs to be packed away and it's important not to spread the sticky glue around over yourself, overalls, gloves etc..
* It takes a long time to set and this requires holding the stal in place - fine for stalagmites but not for stalactites. To use araldite with stalactites/curtains can require the creation of a "holding" frame - usually a box containing sand/gravel and a collection of sponge blocks to support the speleothem while the araldite goes hard; obviously it's important to get the angle right otherwise the resulting fix can leave the formation being off-line!
* Araldite is good for broken stal where small bits are missing since the glue can be mixed in with sand/fine grit (strangely enough crushed volcanic pyroclastic/pumice is best since it is ultra-fine and also makes the araldite set much faster - I have a supply of VP from Mt. St. Helens in my cupboard and use this from time to time). Using this araldite "cement" means that formations can often be given a cosmetic touch up too but use should be very sparing.
* Complex fixes can involve creating wire loops to suspend the formation while the glue sets - this was pioneered (IIRC) by Dr. Stanton and he drilled pilot holes into stalactites and set in small wire loops which then hooked over reciprocating eyes set into the cave ceiling; the two are connected so the stal hangs by wire; the gaps are then filled in with "cement"/araldite/filler (or whatever you're using).

It is quite common (sadly, too common by far!) for broken stal to get broken again and again - usually because it happens to be in a vulnerable location in the first place so once it's fixed, it still gets broken off again...

Firstly it is A VERY GOOD IDEA to mark the area and possibly delineate a path to ensure that repeat incidents do not occur and then it is also worthwhile using superglue instead of other methods since when superglued formations get broken over and over again there is very little accumulation of epoxy resin which makes secondary and tertiary fixes more troublesome.

If anyone has other views or ideas on good methods for stal fixing I'd be interested to hear about them.

 

SamT

Moderator
Is it not the case though that after a few decades - the calcite will start to over grow the repair - and the break will become invisible and eventually - (hundreds/thousands years) - the stal will be just as strong as the next one.

I sure I was told that there is a stal in the peak somewhere - that was accidently knocked off - the culprit felt so guilty - that he drilled out both bits and inserted a peg and stuck it back together.
 

graham

New member
SamT said:
Is it not the case though that after a few decades - the calcite will start to over grow the repair - and the break will become invisible and eventually - (hundreds/thousands years) - the stal will be just as strong as the next one.

I sure I was told that there is a stal in the peak somewhere - that was accidently knocked off - the culprit felt so guilty - that he drilled out both bits and inserted a peg and stuck it back together.

I would doubt that someone drilled out the bit left in place as well as the broken bit.
 

gus horsley

New member
Is it true there's a (former) show cave in the Cheddar Gorge that is adorned with stals from other caves because it didn't have any of it's own to speak of?
 

graham

New member
gus horsley said:
Is it true there's a (former) show cave in the Cheddar Gorge that is adorned with stals from other caves because it didn't have any of it's own to speak of?

Given that there is only one former show cave in Cheddar Gorge & given that there are few stals in it anyway, I suspect that the answer is no.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
Gus - there's an artificial grotto somewhere that was decorated with stal nicked from Yorkshire caves (I think), and I have an idea that stuff was shot out of the roof of Wookey Hole for a similar purpose, using guns, in the 18th or 19th century. You see, selfish and greedy rich people from the South-East, ruining the environment of the other regions for their own pleasure. Nothing changes. ;)
 

Roger W

Well-known member
Drilling a couple of holes for a reinforcing peg sounds a good (?) idea if the formation is big enough, but I would be terrified of doing more damage to the bit that was still attached to the cave...  And what would you use for a peg?  A ceramic cylinder?  Stainless steel?  Titanium?

Superglue does seem to have some advantages over epoxy for a clean break - a very thin adhesive layer and a quick set - but Les questions how permanent it would be in a wet cave...

All comments (especially those derived from practical experience) welcome here.  BTW - if anyone is thinking I want to know because I have a guilty secret that I want to repair before any of the conservation-conscious cavers on this forum find out, then sorry, but you guessed wrong.  But I did think it would be a good idea if we could share our experiences so that if an unfortunate accident should happen in the future, people might have an idea what to do.

Having said that, I would hate to think I might have put the idea into anybody's mind that "it doesn't matter too much if you break a few formations 'cos it tells you how to repair them on the UKcaving forum..."  :unsure:

Taking up another point,  was it a good idea even to mention shooting at stalactites?  That could become a popular underground sport - and give a reason for all those guys who insist on lugging ammo boxes through caves...  :cautious:
 

fi

New member
The Victorians were certainly guilty of removing stal from caves to decorate 'grottos' in their posh gardens.  They also managed to clear the countryside of vast amounts of ferns and dark/damp loving plants for the same reasons.  And in return they gave us... rhohododendrons (ok, maybe I can't spell that) in vast numbers spreading across the countryside.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
Guilty is probably the wrong word. 'Responsible' is better. They had an aesthetic appreciation of the natural world little different to ours, but had a different understanding of the fragility of the natural environment. If they changed a part of their world, they always assumed there was more of the same somewhere else. In the words of Joni Mitchell (spelling?)

"You don't know what you've got till it's gone".


 

fi

New member
Certainly those who in the 19th century made their money from industry seemed to think there was no better pastime than attempting to improve on nature (articificial grottos, landscapes etc).  Authors and social commentators of the time mentioned their poor taste and implied that such things were common and crass so perhaps "guilty" is the right term. 
 
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