ditzy 24//7
Active member
i thought that the cave tempreture is the same throughout a cave apart from the entrence were there is normally a breeze?
Cave Related Climate Change discussion
- Thread starter Peter Burgess
- Start date
cap n chris
Well-known member
By comparison with the major temperature swings experienced on the surface of our planet, cave temperatures are relatively constant but this does not mean they do not vary - it's just that the variations aren't particularly major.
There are many things which will affect temperature underground; the most obvious being whether or not there is an active stream and the surface temperatures affecting that stream's water temperature. Windchill caused by breezes either resulting from atmospheric changes, through drafting or waterfalls etc. can also have very localised and major effects. The usually quoted average "constant" temperature is 10-11C; however, some Mendip caves measure as high as 13C - and Gough's is even hotter but I don't have a figure for that (Gough's temperature is increased by the presence of electric lights for the showcaves which generate "thermals" rising to the higher parts of its up-slope chambers). In winter, the streamway in Swildon's Hole will have localised windchill (e.g. at the Twenty and again at the Old Forty) of around -9C.
There are many things which will affect temperature underground; the most obvious being whether or not there is an active stream and the surface temperatures affecting that stream's water temperature. Windchill caused by breezes either resulting from atmospheric changes, through drafting or waterfalls etc. can also have very localised and major effects. The usually quoted average "constant" temperature is 10-11C; however, some Mendip caves measure as high as 13C - and Gough's is even hotter but I don't have a figure for that (Gough's temperature is increased by the presence of electric lights for the showcaves which generate "thermals" rising to the higher parts of its up-slope chambers). In winter, the streamway in Swildon's Hole will have localised windchill (e.g. at the Twenty and again at the Old Forty) of around -9C.
Peter Burgess
New member
I suppose the point I was trying to make was that there might be more temporary fluctuations from the norm in localised parts of caves due to extreme weather. And that during those temporary fluctuations, the equilibrium between carbon dioxide content of water and air might be upset, resulting in some of it coming out of solution and collecting in stagnant parts of the cave. Like you see air bubbles coming out of tap water if you leave it to stand in a glass for a few minutes.
E
emgee
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
But that's chlorine not CO2.
Peter Burgess
New member
I think you will find it is air. Actually, oxygen-enriched, as oxygen is more soluble in water than nitrogen. Despite the smell you get from tap water, there is virtually no chlorine in tap water - the smell is from some harmless complex chlorine compound I seem to recall, that forms when water is chlorinated.
E
emgee
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
There's enough to kill tropical fish. Which is where I heard it was chlorine.
Peter Burgess
New member
emgee said:
Well I am 99 percent, no sod it, 100 percent sure that it is not chlorine. If it was, then we would all have died a long time ago like the poor sods on the Western Front, by just having a bath. It IS air. Perhaps this fallacy explains why so many people are taken in by the notion that bottled water is safer than tap water, and spend millions each year drinking it and them throwing away all those wasteful plastic bottles. No, let's not go there. Please get back on topic!
Les W
Active member
I'm sure Peter is right, chlorine is only a trace in tap water and will escape to the atmosphere by diffusion if left in an uncovered jug in a fridge for 15 mins or so. The bubbles are air and if the water board have been messing with the supply, the water from the tap can look white from trapped air but will clear if left to stand for a short time.
Incidentally if you do leave water to stand in the fridge until the chlorine has escaped the resulting water is nicer than bottled water, much cheaper and also better for the environment than bottled water.
Incidentally if you do leave water to stand in the fridge until the chlorine has escaped the resulting water is nicer than bottled water, much cheaper and also better for the environment than bottled water.
gus horsley
New member
Buy a water filter if you want to get shot of chlorine in your tap water. far, far cheaper than bottled stuff, probably half of which is tap water put through a filter anyway.
Now back to the topic?
Now back to the topic?
whitelackington
New member
Because of the biological / chemical reactions that happen in caves
they already have much greater percentages of carbon dioxide in them that outside.
If the outside Co2 levels go up slightly,
perhaps the Co2 levels in caves go up even more substantially.
they already have much greater percentages of carbon dioxide in them that outside.
If the outside Co2 levels go up slightly,
perhaps the Co2 levels in caves go up even more substantially.
Peter Burgess
New member
But can you provide a explanation why you think this happens?
whitelackington
New member
No I cannotPeter Burgess said:
perhaps this is where the U.B.S.S. come in?
Peter Burgess
New member
UBSS should be flattered that (some) cavers regard them as the fount of all Mendip speleological knowledge.
Peter Burgess
New member
Welcome back, by the way. I wouldn't bother trying to catch up on what the forum has been discussing - it's all just nonsense, and a big heap of rantings, and none of it posted with any careful consideration or logic. Apart from this topic, of course.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Peter Burgess said:
Shhhh!, Peter! Graham's back; he might hear you!
gus horsley
New member
Here's another possible long-term effect of climate change on caves: erosion of speleothems. If there is an increased rainfall on the surface, there will be an increased percolation rate through the minute fissures which allow CaCO3 to be taken into solution and precipitated. The increased flow can exceed the point at which CaCO3 is precipitated and erosion takes over. Therefore many of our formations may start to slowly disappear.
cap n chris
Well-known member
But that's a natural process. Unless, of course, people are aliens.
gus horsley
New member
cap 'n chris said:
How do you mean?