Cave Related Climate Change discussion

[Peter Burgess]

"exaggerated"

That's a good word. We've got some expert "exaggerators" on the forum.

 

[whitelackington]

Are there any cave scientists out there?

Has any work been done to determine if increased carbon dioxide concentrations in the outside atmosphere have an exaggerated effect underground?
Already there apparently is a massively greater % of CO2 in a cave than up top. :thumbsdown:

I was actually hoping for a usefull answer :-\

 

[gus horsley]

Are there any cave scientists out there?

Has any work been done to determine if increased carbon dioxide concentrations in the outside atmosphere have an exaggerated effect underground?
Already there apparently is a massively greater % of CO2 in a cave than up top. :thumbsdown:

I was actually hoping for a usefull answer :-\

I'm nothing like an expert in this area but, as I understand it, the CO2 percentage in the atmosphere hasn't really gone up by much at all so I wouldn't expect it to noticeably affect a cave environment.  If I'm wrong can someone say why?

 

[dl]

Pre-industry around 250ppm CO2 in atmosphere.

Now around 378ppm, estimated 990ppm by 2100.

I've no idea what effect that would have on the cave environment, perhaps someone would like to sponsor a little research ?

 

[whitelackington]

I thought at the height of the last glaciation it was 150 or 160 ppm.
But in a cave it can reach 2% of cave atmosphere
so is that a possibility of about one hundred times greater concentration in a cave atmosphere compared to the outside atmosphere?

 

[Elaine]

As the CO2 in caves seems to fluctuate - certainly in particular places anyway, it wont be related to the concentration of the outside atmosphere in any significant way. Or at least I would not have thought so. Especially when you remember 2 - 3 years ago the C02 in GB was 4%, and is much less now though the outside concentrations of C02 have not changed (much) in that time. It seems that there is another, or maybe several processes that change the atmopsheric gas concentrations within the cave. We have once or twice measured C02 levels in Templeton. Once shortly before banging, and the other time was just after digging (lots of sweaty heavy breathing males and one female - lucky ole me!) The former was 0.1 to 0.2%, the latter 1%. Although you could argue that it isn't a cave (how dare you!!) and it was only about 100ft down at the time, so probably was full of fresh atmospheric air anyway.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I would give credit to an indirect effect. Something that might be affecting soil or something else, that then goes on to affect the cave air. To say that increased CO2 outside directly causes disproportionately higher levels underground is very unlikely I suspect.

 

[whitelackington]

As the CO2 in caves seems to fluctuate - certainly in particular places anyway, it wont be related to the concentration of the outside atmosphere in any significant way. Or at least I would not have thought so. Especially when you remember 2 - 3 years ago the C02 in GB was 4%, and is much less now though the outside concentrations of C02 have not changed (much) in that time. It seems that there is another, or maybe several processes that change the atmopsheric gas concentrations within the cave. We have once or twice measured C02 levels in Templeton. Once shortly before banging, and the other time was just after digging (lots of sweaty heavy breathing males and one female - lucky ole me!) The former was 0.1 to 0.2%, the latter 1%. Although you could argue that it isn't a cave (how dare you!!) and it was only about 100ft down at the time, so probably was full of fresh atmospheric air anyway.

I did not know it had reached 4% in G.B. Cavern, are you sure Anne, that seems ridiculously high

 

[graham]

As the CO2 in caves seems to fluctuate - certainly in particular places anyway, it wont be related to the concentration of the outside atmosphere in any significant way. Or at least I would not have thought so. Especially when you remember 2 - 3 years ago the C02 in GB was 4%, and is much less now though the outside concentrations of C02 have not changed (much) in that time. It seems that there is another, or maybe several processes that change the atmopsheric gas concentrations within the cave. We have once or twice measured C02 levels in Templeton. Once shortly before banging, and the other time was just after digging (lots of sweaty heavy breathing males and one female - lucky ole me!) The former was 0.1 to 0.2%, the latter 1%. Although you could argue that it isn't a cave (how dare you!!) and it was only about 100ft down at the time, so probably was full of fresh atmospheric air anyway.

I did not know it had reached 4% in G.B. Cavern, are you sure Anne, that seems ridiculously high

That figure is correct. CCC Ltd closed the cave as a safety measure.