Caving Club Tax

[martinr]

Well, if you're confident that it's okay and you've checked (and have it in writing!); Great.

However, information at the following link suggests otherwise, assuming membership to your club gives members access to use of stuff such as equipment, club premises etc.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/charities/gift_aid/mem-subscript.htm

Rhys - sometimes it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

If not, then you should look more closely at what it says on the link you posted:

"To be treated as a gift and qualify for Gift Aid, any subscription payments to your charity must be for membership only and not allow the personal use of facilities.... These conditions still allow members to.... take part in activities that form part of your charity?s objectives"

In the case of a charitable group I belong to, members of the public (or rather guests of members) are allowed free use of our facilites and equipment, thus keeping the taxman happy.

It would be a little peverse to be recognised by the taxman as a charitable caving group but to deny people the use of facilites and equipment of said group.

 

[Rhys]

It would be a little peverse to be recognised by the taxman as a charitable caving group but to deny people the use of facilites and equipment of said group.

Quite. The idea of a caving club being allowed to be a charity has always seemed a little perverse to me!

Rhys

 

[martinr]

The idea of a caving club being allowed to be a charity has always seemed a little perverse to me!

Why is it perverse to be treated as a charity?

We are not a business, we are just a group of like-minded people who have got together because we enjoy caving, and think that others should be offered the opportunity to try our sport. We share the expense of buying equipment between us (by having a subscription) and we allow members of the public to use this equipment and our facilities for free (and some of them enjoy it so much that they even join the group).

In return, the taxman allows us to claim back the tax that members have already paid on their income before they paid their subs. The tax regime that allows this does, I admit, seem a little perverse at first sight. But I disagree with you that it is perverse for a non-profit caving group to be treated as a charity.

 

[AndyF]

Plenty of sports clubs are charities...... including Bolton Wanderers allegedly....

 

[graham]

It would be a little peverse to be recognised by the taxman as a charitable caving group but to deny people the use of facilites and equipment of said group.

Quite. The idea of a caving club being allowed to be a charity has always seemed a little perverse to me!

Rhys

A number of caving clubs, not just setups like ours, have charitable status as their aims encompass various public benefits mainly educational and in conservation terms.

Nowt wrong with that.

 

[Rhys]

Well, if the main focus of the club is genuinely on performing good deeds; conservation, taking beginners caving and so on, great. However, I reckon that in reality, most clubs actually exist largely for the benefit of their own members.

Please note, I don't have an axe to grind here (nor the time to grind one), so I suppose I'm just playing devil's advocate. Anyway, back to caving...

Rhys

 

[martinr]

I reckon that in reality, most clubs actually exist largely for the benefit of their own members.

Most maybe, but not all.

My group, which has charitible status, has the following object:

OBJECT. The object of the Group is, for the benefit of the public, the furtherance of all aspects of the exploration, scientific study and conservation of caves and related features.

 

[cap n chris]

er, does that mean that non club members (i.e. non BCA members, i.e. non-insured individuals) can visit Upper Flood Swallet, use your facilities at Nordrach etc..?

Devil's Advocate rocks.

 

[martinr]

Plenty of sports clubs are charities...... including Bolton Wanderers allegedly....

Actually is is not the football club but BOLTON WANDERERS FOOTBALL IN THE COMMUNITY SCHEME

Charitable objects TO FURTHER AND ASSIST IN THE EDUCATION (ON A SOCIAL AND PHYSICAL BASIS) OF CHILDREN ATTENDING SCHOOLS WITHIN THE GREATER MANCHESTER, LANCASHIRE AND SURROUNDING AREAS THROUGH THE USE OF THE GAME OF FOOTBALL (INCLUDING ITS HISTORY AND RULES) AND OTHER ANCILLARY SPORTING ACTIVITIES AS EDUCATIONAL TOOLS AND IN FURTHERANCE OF THAT OBJECT TO PROVIDE IN GREATER MANCHESTER, LANCASHIRE AND SURROUNDING AREAS FACILITIES AT BOLTON WANDERERS' FOOTBALL GROUND FOR MEETINGS, LECTURES AND CLASSES FOR THE BENEFIT OF SUCH CHILDREN.

Sorry for the capitals - blame the Charity Commissioners

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1090753&SubsidiaryNumber=0

 

[martinr]

er, does that mean that non club members (i.e. non BCA members, i.e. non-insured individuals) can visit Upper Flood Swallet, use your facilities at Nordrach etc..?

Devil's Advocate rocks.

Yes. BCA insurance (sorry, "membership") not required.

A donation would be appreciated if you use our showers/changing rooms.

 

[fi]

I have a nice thick book about charities and gift aid (yes, very sad)...  This is from HMRC about subs and gift aid:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/charities/gift_aid/mem-subscript.htm

Membership subscriptions paid to a UK charity are not gifts but can be treated as so for Gift Aid purposes, provided that the payment:

is for membership of the charity only
does not allow any personal use of the charity?s services or facilities
Membership subscriptions to Community Amateur Sports Clubs (CASCs) are specifically excluded by legislation from the Gift Aid scheme.

Membership subscriptions that do qualify for Gift Aid:

Membership only and no personal use of facilities
To be treated as a gift and qualify for Gift Aid, any subscription payments to your charity must be for membership only and not allow the personal use of facilities.

These conditions still allow members to:

receive periodic newsletters produced by your charity to explain its work
visit and view the work of your charity ? for example a wildlife conservation charity allowing members admission to view its conservation work
take part in activities that form part of your charity?s objectives ? for example a youth organisation providing group craft workshops as part of its educational objectives
Any additional benefits provided to members must be within a certain value, based on the amount of the donation. For more information on these values see link below ?Find out more about the value of benefits that can be given?.