Caving for infidels

[exsumper]

Any non religous Mendip dwellers willing to take the poor lad caving?

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/british-boy-scouts-ban-atheist-child/#comments

Any non religous Mendip dwellers willing to take the poor lad caving?

Or even religous types who aren't fundamentalist nutjobs.

 

[graham]

I spent a couple of years in my teens as a Venture Scout and a few years a decade or so later as a scout leader and never once had to take the oath.

Fortunate really, all things considered.

 

[shortscotsman]

I spent a couple of years in my teens as a Venture Scout and a few years a decade or so later as a scout leader and never once had to take the oath.

Fortunate really, all things considered.

One of my daughters joined rainbows (pre-guides)  recently - she has to make the "rainbow promise"--

"I Promise t hat I will do my best to  love my  God and to be  kind and helpful"

I was a bit surprised

 

[crickleymal]

They refused to take my eldest when I said we were atheists. You can believe in any god you like with the scouts but you can't be an atheist.

 

[bagpuss]

It's silly. I must admit my knowledge of the movement is pretty limited, but in a time where less and less kids are getting outdoors and experiencing life beyond their computers/TV screens I'd have thought they should be welcoming everyone open armed. Religion teaches tolerance and acceptance, and everyone should be welcomed. My daughter goes to Cubs, and there has been no religious teaching through it, so why does it matter whether they do or don't say a stupid promise. Providing they get the ethos of the movement it shouldn't matter. The 'Scout Law' contains no reference to religion it's only the promise which is the stumbling block. He came come caving with us anytime.

 

[bagpuss]

He will however have to follow the post caving religion of having a cheese roll in the Hunters post caving though

 

[Subpopulus Hibernia]

On the whole I've found cavers to be a fairly godless crowd, at least in the sense that I've never seen anyone very bothered that they're missing mass to go caving of a Sunday morning. Maybe that was different back in more conservative times -  does anyone have memories of people rushing out of caves to make it to a service?

 

[Les W]

does anyone have memories of people rushing out of caves to make it to a service?

I usually rush out of caves to make last orders at the Hunters... 

 

[bagpuss]

does anyone have memories of people rushing out of caves to make it to a service?

I usually rush out of caves to make last orders at the Hunters... 

It's not an ethical trip without a trip to the pub

 

[Penguin]

On the whole I've found cavers to be a fairly godless crowd, at least in the sense that I've never seen anyone very bothered that they're missing mass to go caving of a Sunday morning. Maybe that was different back in more conservative times -  does anyone have memories of people rushing out of caves to make it to a service?

Sure with the religious iconography and toponymy in northern Irish caves you wouldn't have to rush out for mass! 

Bleeding Heart, Papist Passage, Presbyterian Purgatory, Midnight Mass, Baptismal Font, Vigin Circuit, Holy Hour Pot, Fenian Terror, Our Lady's Grotto, Templebawn, Heaven and Hell...

 

[Fulk]

bagpuss

Religion teaches tolerance and acceptance, and everyone should be welcomed.

Really?????

 

[Tony_B]

They refused to take my eldest when I said we were atheists. You can believe in any god you like with the scouts but you can't be an atheist.

My seven-year-old is a Beaver Scout (junior version of Cub scouts) and made the Beaver promise when he was invested. Despite being an atheist myself I have no problem with this because a) when he's old enough he can make up his own mind as to whether or not he wants to believe in God, just as I did, and b) kids who are made special cases over things like this are seen by the others as oddballs, and are likely to be picked on as a result. I don't want to project my own (lack of) belief on to my son any more than I want the children of Creationist idiots to be taught that nonsense. If this lad is taking this stance because of his genuine atheist principles then fair play to him, but I suspect parental principles have more than a little to do with this. 

I was introduced to caving, as well as all sorts of other things including the way I make my living, by the Scout movement so in my opinion it's a wonderful thing. This sounds to me like an over-zealous Scout leader at work rather than the policy of the movement. 

 

[graham]

This sounds to me like an over-zealous Scout leader at work rather than the policy of the movement.

Bit of both, I reckon. The policy will still be there, as a hang over from times past, but largely ignored until the wrong scout master (who probably also runs a B&B) comes along.

 

[Tony_B]

bagpuss

Religion teaches tolerance and acceptance, and everyone should be welcomed.

Really?????

Every time I hear religious people on the media I am astonished at their remarkable intolerance and lack of acceptance. See the current news story about the B&B.

A few weeks ago I heard a god-botherer, a senior representative of the C of E, on the radio arguing that the church should not have women bishops because 'bishops have always been men'. Trying using that argument to explain why there should be no female lawyers, or teachers, or doctors, or CEOs, and see how far that'd get you.   

 

[cap n chris]

The trouble with Christianity

My hero.

 

[Rhys]

If the boy refuses to do what's necessary to join the Scouts, that's up to him. I'm sure there are other youth groups out there he could join to take him caving. Or perhaps his parents could pay a commercial instructor to take him.

Rhys

 

[Tony_B]

The trouble with Christianity

My hero.

"I'd rather go to hell than be a Christian". Fantastic, thanks for posting.

 

[Tony_B]

If the boy refuses to do what's necessary to join the Scouts, that's up to him. I'm sure there are other youth groups out there he could join to take him caving. Or perhaps his parents could pay a commercial instructor to take him.

Rhys

Sorry Rhys, but I'm going to take issue with this. In the 21st century it should not be 'necessary' to swear allegiance to God to join the Scouts. As has been pointed out in the thread on the 'Why Evolution is True' blog that the OP linked to, it's actually illegal (with the usual exceptions that religious types always demand). It's a long time since Baden-Powell. No doubt the Scout Association has had to acknowledge our multi-cultural society and make allowance for children of other faiths to join, be they Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs or whatever. Why should the fact that this lad chooses not to believe in a God disbar him?

One of the many things I learnt from my time as a cub, scout and venture scout was the importance of respect for others. To deny an 11-year-old membership of your scout group because he chooses not to worship your God would seem to show a singular lack of respect.

 

[mrodoc]

This is a form of discrimination IMHO.  My daughter by 11 had already formed her opinion on religion so I suppose could have been drummed out of the Brownies!

 

[Rhys]

Oh, those poor downtrodden atheists! It'll be non-believing bishops you want next. It's political correctness gone mad I tells ya!

;-)