Caving under lockdown 3.0 (Split from Re: CNCC updated advice)

[pwhole]

I haven't seen any police at all in the last three days, since a bunch of them guffawed all over me in the road. Most people on my street seem to be going about their business as usual, with varying degrees of caution, and I am too as I'm on my own and only go near other people when I go to the shops. Doesn't feel very police-statey to me.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Traffic round here much busier than at Lockdown #1. Went to pick up a kebab for lunch, a shop with no more than 2 in the shop sign on the door, one of the three kebab persons had a mask on, the others had them hanging from to the front. There were 5 tradespeople in there at a time, I trundle outside until my kebab was ready, so yes, people in general do not appear to give a flying f@@@.

 

[mikem]

& why they stepped down:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-derbyshire-55594244

Although:

Boris Johnson said the public should "stay at home" and not get complacent.

On Friday 1,325 deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid test were recorded in the UK - the highest daily figure yet - along with 68,053 new cases.

Government sources say there is likely to be more focus from police on enforcing rather than explaining rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55598918

 

[Rachel]

Apologies for this being a facebook link, but it's from North Yorkshire Police, setting out their approach to policing people travelling in the Dales during this lockdown.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158722427596070&id=137302061069

 

[paul]

Traffic round here much busier than at Lockdown #1.

Same here, in a small village. During the first lockdown, traffic levels were markedly low but at the moment it's difficult to tell if there is any difference from pre-Covid levels.

 

[mikem]

Partly to do with weather being nice enough to encourage people to walk places during first lockdown.

The government guidance on travel & exercise is couched in rather a lot of shoulds, not musts, so no surprise the police had to step down - they have been left open to confusion by politicians again.

 

[Pitlamp]

As I've said before, I have a lot of sympathy for the police who are having to try to interpret ambiguous information. This comment, from a former Chief Police Officer, explains it rather well:

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2021/01/09/clarity-needed-over-lockdown-rules-to-avoid-a-confusiona-say/

Most folk want to do the right thing - but when they can't determine what the right thing is, what chance have they got of getting it right? Come on politicians; sort it out please.

 

[Duck ditch]

Set off at dawn today to climb snowbound ingleborough from ingleton.  Counted 70 people on the way down.  Yikes

 

[Badlad]

Was that really necessary? 

 

[Stu]

As I've said before, I have a lot of sympathy for the police who are having to try to interpret ambiguous information. This comment, from a former Chief Police Officer, explains it rather well:

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2021/01/09/clarity-needed-over-lockdown-rules-to-avoid-a-confusiona-say/

Most folk want to do the right thing - but when they can't determine what the right thing is, what chance have they got of getting it right? Come on politicians; sort it out please.

You almost sound like you want a Nanny and/or Police State Pitlamp!! 

To be fair to them (the govt.), in all the guidance and rules etc. number one on the list is stay home as much as possible. Nearly every county or health authority is now reporting huge increases of infection rates and hospitalisation. The politicians told people to have Xmas and a happy New Year. And that they did. Now we wait...

 

[pwhole]

I just got back from my day's walk to Graves Park in Sheffield, the highest one in town, and it was packed - more than a normal summer day, which is weird, considering it was 2?, but it was (still is) cloudless and gorgeous. The car parks were completely full, obviously, as no-one walks to the park. Large 'family' groups mostly. I had to walk on the football pitches as the footpaths were ridiculous. The main road up there, the A61, was nose-to tail cars in both directions at 12.30 and it was exactly the same when I got back, though I cut through the woods to avoid all that nastiness. So I'm struggling to think where to go next, as all the nearer parks are always packed anyway. Maybe I'll go into town, as that's probably empty! Maybe an impoverished housing estate will be less busy.

I'm beginning to think that herd immunity is going to be imposed eventually, by the public themselves, whether we like it or not. Herd something, anyway.

 

[Stu]

I just got back from my day's walk to Graves Park in Sheffield, the highest one in town, and it was packed - more than a normal summer day, which is weird, considering it was 2?, but it was (still is) cloudless and gorgeous. The car parks were completely full, obviously, as no-one walks to the park. Large 'family' groups mostly. I had to walk on the football pitches as the footpaths were ridiculous. The main road up there, the A61, was nose-to tail cars in both directions at 12.30 and it was exactly the same when I got back, though I cut through the woods to avoid all that nastiness. So I'm struggling to think where to go next, as all the nearer parks are always packed anyway. Maybe I'll go into town, as that's probably empty!

Haha, we walked into town (Sheffield) last week to see if any of the lights were still up. It was dead, so maybe you're on to something.

 

[pwhole]

This is a reasonable approximation of the predicament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pSD26bGy3I

 

[Bob Mehew]

Given the discussion here, I was amused on reading this https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1865824/coronavirus-crime/ .  So don't go to Scotland.  I gather the law on this topic in England and Wales is somewhat different but similar in intent.

 

[Pitlamp]

You almost sound like you want a Nanny and/or Police State Pitlamp!! 

Er no - and like many others I was alarmed by the incident where those two lasses were handed fines by Derbyshire police officers.

I just want to do the right thing but it seems impossible to find out what that is.

A few weeks ago I emailed my own area's police force to check whether a particular journey was permissible or not. I received a friendly reply but it told me they would not comment on individual cases. If they can't say yay or nay when they have the time to think about it properly, how is an individual officer supposed to make a meaningful snap decision?

A BBC article yesterday told us that officers are supposed to use their professional judgement. It seems to only way to find out whether something is an offence or not is to commit the offence. That's really not a good position for a country to be in.

None of this is the fault of police officers. I also realise it must be exceedingly difficult for the Government in this pandemic situation. But those who make rules used as the basis for fines should really make those rules crystal clear.

 

[Stu]

You almost sound like you want a Nanny and/or Police State Pitlamp!! 

Er no - and like many others I was alarmed by the incident where those two lasses were handed fines by Derbyshire police officers.

I just want to do the right thing but it seems impossible to find out what that is.

A few weeks ago I emailed my own area's police force to check whether a particular journey was permissible or not. I received a friendly reply but it told me they would not comment on individual cases. If they can't say yay or nay when they have the time to think about it properly, how is an individual officer supposed to make a meaningful snap decision?

A BBC article yesterday told us that officers are supposed to use their professional judgement. It seems to only way to find out whether something is an offence or not is to commit the offence. That's really not a good position for a country to be in.

None of this is the fault of police officers. I also realise it must be exceedingly difficult for the Government in this pandemic situation. But those who make rules used as the basis for fines should really make those rules crystal clear.

 

[SamT]

I just got back from my day's walk to Graves Park in Sheffield, the highest one in town, and it was packed - more than a normal summer day, which is weird, considering it was 2?, but it was (still is) cloudless and gorgeous. The car parks were completely full, obviously, as no-one walks to the park. Large 'family' groups mostly. I had to walk on the football pitches as the footpaths were ridiculous. The main road up there, the A61, was nose-to tail cars in both directions at 12.30 and it was exactly the same when I got back, though I cut through the woods to avoid all that nastiness. So I'm struggling to think where to go next, as all the nearer parks are always packed anyway. Maybe I'll go into town, as that's probably empty! Maybe an impoverished housing estate will be less busy.

I'm beginning to think that herd immunity is going to be imposed eventually, by the public themselves, whether we like it or not. Herd something, anyway.

We went out to the peak.  I wasn't too concerned about fines etc since DPC issued a bit of a climbdown on the fines issued earlier in the week, and I was perfectly happy to argue my case with an officer. (Particularly as we were dropping some bits and bobs off at my mums, who's shielding). 

It was actually relatively civilised out there compared to recent weeks.  Still some spaces left at surprise view car park. Hathersage was pretty dead as we drove through.  I had a strong suspicion that any sheffield parks would pose a far greater risk and be far busier than some obscure part of the peak.  We passed one other dog walker on our walk and a couple of other walkers at a distance.

Not sure I'd want to cave with anyone not from my own household. 

 

[ZombieCake]

It's not like plod are even following the guidelines and are doing the equivalent of a Cummings and Fergusson

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/police-flout-lockdown-london-cafe-154621307.html

There's a big difference between breaking up raves or other mass gatherings or busting drug dealers etc., and jumping on people out for a walk for a quick buck to fill the coffers and an another easy crime statistic.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Set off at dawn today to climb snowbound ingleborough from ingleton.  Counted 70 people on the way down.  Yikes

70's not that many... Me and my girlfriend walked up yesterday (also walking straight from the house, no car involved) and saw another local couple we know and a local family with dog. They'd seen another local team member on the way up. Most people had microspikes or equivalent on - a lot more prepared than the typical winter Snowdon crowd!

 

[alastairgott]

Set off at dawn today to climb snowbound ingleborough from ingleton.  Counted 70 people on the way down.  Yikes

Set off at dawn? I was up at midnight eating a shoelace behind a drystone wall for warmth and climbed all the hills before dawn, twice.