CCC newsletter - Conservation and Access article

estelle

Member
Just reading it and noted on P2 that it says: - "Forest of Dean Caving Symposium Cancelled This event at Parkend on June 27-29th has unfortunately had to be cancelled."
Is this correct? as the website - http://www.forest2014symposium.co.uk/ - does not indicate this to be the case, well yet anyway...
 

NigR

New member
Nice newsletter, a marked improvement in terms of both content and production.

Well done to all concerned.
 

Huge

Member
Copied and pasted from Stuart France's article on access.

    The guiding principle shared by the new team is to prioritise access. Indeed, Cambrian?s own constitution says that access should be maintained and improved whenever the opportunity presents itself whilst encouraging cave conservation. This is similar to the way in which the equivalent BCA documents are phrased.
    But there is a body of opinion that feels conservation has become the tail wagging the caving dog. Widely trodden floors in OFD 2 are cited as an example of troubles resulting from new access routes, but in reality this is an example (albeit quite understandable) of a management issue from decades ago in not placing tapes nor any other conservation measures besides a gate to prevent such damage. In recent years a counter-example is Llygad Llwchwr 2 which has ungated access. This was taped before becoming widely known, and so there has been relatively little untoward there.
    If we do not have any access then there is no need to think about cave conservation. In the absence of straightforward access all we will have is cave preservation where nobody gets to go anywhere and nothing new gets discovered.


I wonder if he has anywhere specific in mind.  :-\
 

graham

New member
Huge said:
I wonder if he has anywhere specific in mind.  :-\

Can't imagine. But what it did bring to mind was this thread especially the last line of post 24:

As you say, it's a fragile place and increased traffic ain't gonna do it any favours - cavers need to go steady ...

If new exploration at all costs was to become the tail wagging the caving dog then would the costs be too high in the longer term?

There are other comments that could be made about other bits from that quote.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
Jopo said:
May not agree with some of the material but like the style.

Jopo
Not agree with the factual content, or the opinions? Is the newsletter of a regional council the right place for expressing opinion? Are the opinions expressed shared by all those the council represents?
 

Ian Adams

Active member
Peter Burgess said:
Are the opinions expressed shared by all those the council represents?

The article was circulated around the committee, some members made some tweaks, no one criticised it and you see it in it's approved format.

"Expressing opinion"; it is inevitable that we (each and every person on the planet) will hold an "opinion". We may share those with others or we may not. All regional councils consist of such people and it is equally likely that the "expressed opinion" of any committee bound together by individual opinions may differ from council to council.

A "Council" is elected by it's members to serve them and the members vote for who they feel will best serve their interests. Of course, not everyone will vote the same way.

Once elected, any regional council will then act as it sees best for their members and it is reasonable to keep their members informed. A newsletter does seem an appropriate medium for doing this.

  :)

Ian
 

Jopo

Member
Peter Burgess said:
Jopo said:
May not agree with some of the material but like the style.

Jopo
Not agree with the factual content, or the opinions? Is the newsletter of a regional council the right place for expressing opinion? Are the opinions expressed shared by all those the council represents?

Not wishing to kick off a debate (?) about access such as recently seen in the CNCC threads and because I do not wish to become involved in actually doing something I will keep my opinions to myself.

That said I find it refreshing to see such a informative report, about the complexities of access with sundry bodies, from the Conversation officer.

In answer to the third part of the question I am sure that those who it may/does effect will communicate with the CCC or even turn up at a general meeting.

Jopo
 

droid

Active member
Jackalpup said:
Once elected, any regional council will then act as it sees best for their members and it is reasonable to keep their members informed. A newsletter does seem an appropriate medium for doing this.

I agree that a newsletter forms a useful communications medium but (there's always a 'but'  :LOL: ):

Is the statement a statement of policy, or a discussion document?

and

Are the 'members' members of the Committee or those people in the Clubs the Committee 'oversees'?
 

Ian Adams

Active member
droid said:
Is the statement a statement of policy, or a discussion document?

and

Are the 'members' members of the Committee or those people in the Clubs the Committee 'oversees'?


1) It is a report by the Access and Conservation officer which also defines the way in which he/we are moving forward on the prevalent issues. It is not a discussion document per se. Personally I believe debate (critical or otherwise) and perspectives are all beneficial.

2) Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "overseas" ?

Regards,

Ian
 

graham

New member
It is interesting to note the Cambrian Constitution:

    AIMS AND OBJECTS

3.1      To encourage the exchange of information between clubs and other regional and national bodies

3.2      To safeguard the interests of caving and mining clubs and cavers

3.3  To maintain friendly relations with, and foster the spirit of co‑operation between similar and associated bodies, with a view to promoting and achieving objects of mutual interest.

3.4  To encourage the recording of information on sites of subterranean interest in Wales in the Cambrian Cave Registry, which the Council will maintain, and similarly in the Forest of Dean and the Marches.

3.5      To encourage cave conservation.

3.6  To support clubs and cave access bodies in obtaining, maintaining, and improving access arrangements in Wales, the Forest of Dean and the Marches

This simply gives the Council a supporting role in matters of access. It cannot thus dictate policy either to access bodies or to landowners. it is important that this is remembered by all concerned.
 

droid

Active member
Jackalpup said:
2) Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "overseas" ?

Reading the constitution above, perhaps instead of 'oversees' I should have written 'supports'.  :)
 
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