CCC Newsletter - Feb 2015

[Blakethwaite]

Yes. It will be a great day when access in 'The North' is as good as Wales.

Keys, leader schemes, eternal inter-club falling outs/dickery, gating & lock-chopping. All that needs to be added to that is Derbyshire's pay-to-cave ideology and it'll be nigh on perfect.  :tease:

 

[Simon Wilson]

 

[martinm]

All that needs to be added to that is Derbyshire's pay-to-cave ideology and it'll be nigh on perfect.  :tease:

There is no 'pay-to-cave ideology' in the Peak. You turn up & go caving. In a few cases you need to pay the landowner a small fee, that's all. 

 

[AR]

Juat to add to Mel's comment, can we get something straight once and for all? You do not pay to go into the cave/mine, it is a pay the landowner for permission to cross their property and get to the entrance. In these cases there is no public access to the entrance so can people damn well stop acting like they do have an inalienable right to go onto someone else's private property and either accept the fact that a landowner has every right to charge you for going onto their land where there's no public footpath or go elsewhere. Oh, and bear in mind that the landowners could if they wish shut up the entrances so maintaining their goodwill does have a value, which is generally a couple of quid per head....

 

[Blakethwaite]

Hello M Milner.

Please don't ever let anyone accuse you of taking yourself too seriously. 

This good access in Derbyshire thing that you all bang on about though... The funny thing is I've just been looking through the DCC Handbook and after about five pages of "no access", "access strictly controlled", "small payment to be made" & "blah-de-blah" I gave up and thanked the Lord I cave in Yorkshire. 
http://www.thedca.org.uk/access-information/dca-handbook

And apologies to the Moderator Over-Lords for going off-topic!  :chair:

 

[graham]

Graham,

I didn't see your reply until much later than I posted the reply to Rhys - sorry.

That's Ok, not your fault. All of my posts are held for a while ...

The mandate to pursue the FC/NRW agreement originated under the previous incumbents and was undertaken by Elsie. This then passed over to Bernie who stepped into Elsie's shoes and then to Stuart following the last AGM. I don't have the information available to answer your question. However, it does not seem to fall outside of the remit of the Access officer to pursue such an avenue in any event. Nevertheless, I am not privy to the original discussions of the "then" committee.

I understand the process and I agree that an access officer is, virtually by definition, mandated to pursue access agreements. It is a step beyond that, though, to not consider that any such agreement might need ratifying by the whole body before being accepted.  Consider: The Maastricht treaty was negotiated by Margaret Thatcher & Geoffrey Howe but it had to be voted on and accepted by Parliament before the country was bound by it.

With regards to the amendments, I understand where you are coming from. They are only slight amendments and I accept that you (or others) may see that they have greater implications. There is no clandestine intent, no intention to fight landowners, only to foster relations with a view to easing access. I understand that some people may see it as some "conspiracy theory" (goodness knows there have been so many accusations on this forum alone, let alone within caving clubs and groups). The CCC wants to be progressive and relevant. To do this we need to move forward as events that surround us unfold. The best chance for greater access is to make the current NRW agreement work and use it as a successful example when approaching others.

We must agree to differ as to the appropriateness of these amendments.

Lastly, (sorry), I don't understand your reference to "advertised ends" ?

Sorry, possibly my woolly use of English when you say "only to foster relations with a view to easing access" that is what I mean by your "advertised end." I remain unconvinced that this outcome will be achieved by this particular process.

 

[bograt]

Hello M Milner.

Please don't ever let anyone accuse you of taking yourself too seriously. 

This good access in Derbyshire thing that you all bang on about though... The funny thing is I've just been looking through the DCC Handbook and after about five pages of "no access", "access strictly controlled", "small payment to be made" & "blah-de-blah" I gave up and thanked the Lord I cave in Yorkshire. 
http://www.thedca.org.uk/access-information/dca-handbook

And apologies to the Moderator Over-Lords for going off-topic!  :chair:

Yes, thank the lord you do. 

 

[AR]

This good access in Derbyshire thing that you all bang on about though... The funny thing is I've just been looking through the DCC Handbook and after about five pages of "no access", "access strictly controlled", "small payment to be made" & "blah-de-blah" I gave up and thanked the Lord I cave in Yorkshire. 
http://www.thedca.org.uk/access-information/dca-handbook

Oh sorry, I forgot you have no access issues at all in Yorkshire, I must have dreamed all that stuff about the CNCC and the permit system... :-\

 

[paul]

[gmod]Can we please now all get back on topic![/gmod]