Chest Ascender without branding.

[Ian Ball]

I wonder if somewhere there is a Chinese bloke crying to himself that the nasty Uk cavers don't like his rope clamp.

I would never buy this, however I have bought a cheap chest jammer for when my Version H Croll dies a death (mostly likely at the connection onto the steel dmaillon I use) I went for the Anthron AC30.

 

[nickwilliams]

I think we've already concluded which way this is going, but as further grist to the mill, the number shown after the CE logo on the back of the device is 1282, which is the number for an Italian Notified Body called ENTE CERTIFICAZIONE MACCHINE SRL. ENTE are not Notifed under the PPE Directive so they are not qualified to certify this type of equipment.

I do this stuff for a living and there is more I could say, but I'd probably better not on a public forum.

 

[pwhole]

Whatever you can say is always appreciated in cases like this

 

[Roger W]

Unfortunately it is all too easy for an unscrupulous manufacturer to print EN numbers and suchlike on his products to fool the unwary and ignorant.

I remember 20-odd years ago working in China for a chocolate company and seeing a lot of imitation "Ferrero Rocher" chocolates in the shops there.  The plastic cases were easy to imitate, the edible contents less so.  And some of them were labelled with names like "Furry Rodents" and "Furtive Rockets."

I don't think eating them presented a serious risk to life.  But using some of these unbranded ascenders could.

 

[manrabbit]

The surface finish on the anodizing is shocking, this is very often down to impurities in the material or the wrong process being used for a particular material, the aluminium burns in the bath resulting in a part that looks as if it's been grit blasted. This poor finish is obvious on the unit they photographed for their marketing which doesn't say much about the company making them.

I dare say there a very good ( and safe) copies of Camp and Petzl assenders being made in China but this an't one of them.

 

[PeteHall]

I dare say there a very good ( and safe) copies of Camp and Petzl assenders being made in China but this an't one of them.

Just as I am sure there are very many safe home made racks out there, but I challenge you to identify which ones, without an inside knowledge of the manufacturing process.

As has been said above, not worth taking the risk of an unknown quality product if your life is going to depend on it! After all, we're talking about a few tens of pounds difference for a product that should last several years (depending on level of use!). There are better and safer ways to save money.

 

[Simon Wilson]

Quite right.

Furthermore, I don't think it's ethical to buy 'rip off' gear which is borderline counterfeit. SRT gear has never been as low priced as it is now - how cheap do you want it? It's the same when you're buying most things. Don't go along with the supermarkets who keep telling us "the consumers demand low prices" and exploit their suppliers whilst trying to blame us.

Buy on quality not price and support the suppliers of good quality. I refuse to shop at Lidl and Aldi for food and I want to support and encourage Camp and Climbing Technology who are now the leaders in producing quality SRT gear.

 

[Cave_Troll]

I don't think there's anything "borderline" about this

 

[crickleymal]

Quite right.

Furthermore, I don't think it's ethical to buy 'rip off' gear which is borderline counterfeit. SRT gear has never been as low priced as it is now - how cheap do you want it? It's the same when you're buying most things. Don't go along with the supermarkets who keep telling us "the consumers demand low prices" and exploit their suppliers whilst trying to blame us.

Buy on quality not price and support the suppliers of good quality. I refuse to shop at Lidl and Aldi for food and I want to support and encourage Camp and Climbing Technology who are now the leaders in producing quality SRT gear.

Fair enough but I find Lidl and Aldi great value for money (mostly) and the foods perfectly fine.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I don't think there's anything "borderline" about this

I don't want to look like a barrackroom lawyer and I might be wrong but I think the term 'counterfeit', as used by Trading Standards, is reserved for goods which use the company logo and are passed off as being genuine.

The Chinese ascender will have to comply with EBay's policy on counterfeiting. They have copied the design but appear for now to remain within EBay's rules. It hasn't been on EBay long so just maybe Camp will get it removed - we'll see.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html

 

[droid]

Quite right.

Buy on quality not price and support the suppliers of good quality. I refuse to shop at Lidl and Aldi for food and I want to support and encourage Camp and Climbing Technology who are now the leaders in producing quality SRT gear.

Nothing wrong with the quality of food at Aldi/Lidl. Price isn't necessarily proportional to quality.

I hesitate to buy safety-related products from unknown producers though. So I don't buy my motorcycle helmets there.

 

[Cave_Troll]

It appears to be using a counterfeit CE mark

 

[royfellows]

My take on it is simple. Its a piece of junk.

Some interesting info come out in this thread though.

 

[Simon Wilson]

It appears to be using a counterfeit CE mark

Again, I don't think 'counterfeit' is quite the right term. The CE mark might be false but I think they haven't broken any laws. I don't know but I know a man who will.

 

[nickwilliams]

If the manufacturer was a European company then their use of the CE logo would be clearly illegal. As it is, because they are a Chinese company and they are selling the goods from China, it is arguably the purchaser in Europe who is committing an offence by importing goods which fail to comply with the applicable directives. In any case, there is pretty much no possiblity that European based enforcement bodies will be able to take any effective action against the manufacturer. The best they could do is get e-bay to refuse to list the product.

Of course, all this would stop being a problem if e-bay did what real retailers have to do, which is to check the certification of the products they sell and ensure that they are legal. But of course that means e-bay would have to spend money on employing people and systems to do the checking, and that would have to come out of their profits, so e-bay prefer to hide behind the fiction that they are just a facilitator and have no responsibility for the quality of the products they sell.

 

[crickleymal]

Of course, all this would stop being a problem if e-bay did what real retailers have to do, which is to check the certification of the products they sell and ensure that they are legal. But of course that means e-bay would have to spend money on employing people and systems to do the checking, and that would have to come out of their profits, so e-bay prefer to hide behind the fiction that they are just a facilitator and have no responsibility for the quality of the products they sell.

This. 

 

[BradW]

It appears to be using a counterfeit CE mark

Again, I don't think 'counterfeit' is quite the right term. The CE mark might be false but I think they haven't broken any laws. I don't know but I know a man who will.

A false CE mark would be termed Fraud I suspect.

 

[Cave_Troll]

Nic
Theoretically could they be impounded by customs on import ?



don't mention brexit

 

[nickwilliams]

A false CE mark would be termed Fraud I suspect.

In Europe, where the CE logo has a specific legal status, that would be correct. In China, where it doesn't, I think that would be a lot more difficult to prove.

Theoretically could they be impounded by customs on import ?

Yes, definitely.

OK, I won't

 

[Fulk]

I recently bought two Camp karabiners, which seem to have all the appropriate accreditation. The ?blurb? that came with them (three information sheets and a little booklet) seems to cover all the relevant stuff.

I was surprised on getting home to find little stickers on the blurb saying that they were made in China. So ? can we assume from this that Camp have set up an operation in China?