Choice of descender (Split from "Falling on Cows Tails")

[Fjell]

A long time ago I found a rack too annoying to lock off and use for rigging. I also run the rope through a Stop when rigging anything difficult/horizontal, which is pointless with a rack. Also bent the eye on my last Petzl rack. So ended up using a Stop on very long drops, which was interesting at times.

We have a new Stop as well as a collection of Stops and Simples up to 30 years old. None have ever been an issue.

One issue I do have is the new Stop has no published data on a dynamic test. Only the 800kg static test. I suppose it is comforting it didn’t shear the rope at 800kg, but it would be nice to know what happens in a FF1 at least. Does it slide and absorb force?

Which leads me to the Rig. It has some very interesting test data. The shock loads with 9mm are half of that with 11mm. Now I realise that it is rated for 10mm+, but Petzl have been quite keen on testing it with 9mm. Does this mean it is Petzl AutoPlummet on 9mm? I have never tried it.

Static and dynamic tests on the RIG - Petzl Other

www.petzl.com

 

[i think it goes]

From the perspective of a student club, we generally teach people on a simple as its what we have the most of and its...simple. We are lucky enough to have a climbing wall to teach them their first srt sessions on so they're belayed down their first couple ~10m pitches whilst learning to use the device safely and have at least one person checking them over at all times. It seems to work.

I have seen people with 'bad' technique getting away with it using an old style stop but when they switch over to a different descender (even a more worn stop) they really struggle and put themselves in danger. Not saying that's the norm but seems to be my experience.

Also simples are relatively cheap and our club doesn't get much funding from the students union so budget is a big factor when purchasing and servicing kit. Which is a bit sad but that's the reality of it. It would be very nice to have everyone on a new style stop for the versatility and safety of it but that's not the way it goes unfortunately.

 

[hannahb]

In the past I used to teach people with whatever descender they were borrowing, typically a Stop (Durham Uni). Following advice and lots of thought and reading, I now put a karabiner through the hole that locks the Stop handle in and makes it behave like a Simple until the person is comfortable controlling their descent with the rope. If I have the chance I also belay them on a separate rope for the first couple of short descents. I have found a marked improvement in people's technique when they eventually move onto using the handle, and they seem to pick it up quicker, and be able to lock off and undo the lock more reliably. I would recommend this way of teaching based on my experience. It doesn't add a lot of time and might ultimately make the training a little quicker.

Relatedly, when I learned to do SRT, with a Stop, I knew that I should squeeze the handle in all the way and use the rope to brake and stop. I have always found that challenging on even moderately long pitches (guess I should get to the gym and do some hand exercises ) so I switched to a Simple a few years ago. Aside from it being quite annoying for rigging (I'm not a very confident rigger) and the occasional thought about what would certainly happen if I got knocked by a rock or just fumbled the rope (as others have mentioned), I definitely prefer it. But I wouldn't recommend it to someone not totally comfortable with SRT because of the greater risk of getting it wrong - I would recommend something with a handle.

 

[pwhole]

Which leads me to the Rig. It has some very interesting test data. The shock loads with 9mm are half of that with 11mm. Now I realise that it is rated for 10mm+, but Petzl have been quite keen on testing it with 9mm. Does this mean it is Petzl AutoPlummet on 9mm? I have never tried it.

I've used a new model Rig on 9mm Gleistein with no issues whatsoever - gripped it fine when it had to, and a lovely descent.

 

[Tim Pickering]

I'm following this with interest as I am wanting to replace my old Stop before the year is out. I find the handle digs into my palm so feels more bruisy than achy. I like the look of the new Stop as that would eliminate that problem but I'm also tempted by a rack. Me being me, though, always 'worst case scenario' guy, I worry about situations such as being knocked-out or having some other emergency that renders me unconscious on the rope. Another thing I don't like about the Stop, is, as others have mentioned, needing two hands. It makes me feel less in control

 

[andrewmcleod]

I recently discovered I could operate the handle on my Rig with my elbow in a tight squeeze (albeit my Rig's Freino is clipped into a 10cm sling on my central maillon, so your elbow length may vary).

Failing that, you could always use an Italian on a cowstail, or put your descender on a cowstail, if you have some form of locking carabiner on them...