Club Conservation

[bagpuss]

We are proactive in terms of mentioning all the important points to newcomers & I know club members who tidy up mines. In terms of cave conservation (aside from picking up rubbish as we go) how would a club go about getting involved with more of this side of things? I'd be more than willing to help out, but would have no idea who to approach.

 

[Leclused]

We are proactive in terms of mentioning all the important points to newcomers & I know club members who tidy up mines. In terms of cave conservation (aside from picking up rubbish as we go) how would a club go about getting involved with more of this side of things? I'd be more than willing to help out, but would have no idea who to approach.

If you want to help you are the perfect person to start with. Take up the challenge and inform your fellow clubmembers that you think your club should be involved in cave and mine conservation.

How to's can be found everywhere in this subforum.

But a good starting point (imho) is still the 15 years old presentation of P de Bie from Sc Avalon.
It can be found on the conservation page of avalon  http://www.scavalon.be/avalonuk/av06.htm

 

[cap n chris]

If the BCA deem it a good idea to distribute leaflets, go ahead.

It might be deemed to be a good idea to distribute leaflets and if they were actually distributed then it would be a good idea. However if a box of leaflets is sent to a club and they remain in the box in the corner of a cupboard for years and years then it wasn't a good idea after all. Based on the seeming lack of interest at club organisational level in this topic, the latter could easily be the default. Obviously it is hoped this is not the case! Hoping for something doesn't make it happen, though.

An electronic leaflet PDF emailed annually by BCA to every caver in the UK, plus printed versions on club walls, electronic upload versions here and elsewhere on the interwebnet, plus hardcopy versions in a welcome pack for new members might be deemed a good idea. This might seem risible to established cavers but as has been mentioned and accepted as worthy in other comments on the topic, education of cavers is the best form of conservation as it gets the message across before its too late. Once people know, they know they know.

Publicity is one thing, following it up with actual project works would be the next step, at selected sites where it is considered beneficial.

 

[kay]

We are proactive in terms of mentioning all the important points to newcomers & I know club members who tidy up mines. In terms of cave conservation (aside from picking up rubbish as we go) how would a club go about getting involved with more of this side of things? I'd be more than willing to help out, but would have no idea who to approach.

A starting point might be the Conservation Officer of your local access body - CNCC, CSCC, DCA etc. If you're caving in the Dales, pm me.

 

[kay]

It might be deemed to be a good idea to distribute leaflets and if they were actually distributed then it would be a good idea...

An electronic leaflet PDF emailed annually by BCA to every caver in the UK, plus printed versions on club walls, electronic upload versions here and elsewhere on the interwebnet, plus hardcopy versions in a welcome pack for new members might be deemed a good idea.

Direct mailings to individuals has the advantage that you get the information to the target. Mailing via clubs may be organisationally easier, but as you identify, you don't have control over the whole of the communication channel - the information may never reach its destination.

On the other hand, a club has the potential to add its own weight and peer pressure to reinforce the message.

Talking about it here is good - if conservation is part of the normal conservation of cavers, it will become part of the education of newcomers.

 

[droid]

Chris: if you are looking for backing for the idea of paper leaflets (as opposed to electronic ones) then why not email club officials rather than putting a poll on here?

The client base of this forum might well have expanded a bit, but it's only a tiny fraction of active cavers, and probably just as small a fraction of club officials.

it's worth discussing, but is unlikely to provide definitive guidance.

 

[Pegasus]

The client base of this forum might well have expanded a bit, but it's only a tiny fraction of active cavers, and probably just as small a fraction of club officials.

it's worth discussing, but is unlikely to provide definitive guidance.

I would beg to differ - UKC certainly attracts more than a 'tiny fraction' of active cavers - 8600+ individuals have visited the forum within the past month.

 

[droid]

Maybe 'active contributors' would have been a better phrase.

 

[cap n chris]

Chris: if you are looking for backing for the idea of paper leaflets (as opposed to electronic ones) then why not email club officials rather than putting a poll on here?

It may come to that. Certainly the poll shows that clubs are generally not pro-active; suggesting there may be a need to contact club officials on the topic, rather than the other way around, kinda reinforces the point.

 

[droid]

I'd certainly think producing some sort of informative/thought provoking poster for club huts would be a good idea.

Maybe also for shops.

 

[Leclused]

I'd certainly think producing some sort of informative/thought provoking poster for club huts would be a good idea.

Maybe also for shops.

You can make a poster with a message to encourage clean-up actions
A before / after photo about a clean-up of sinkhole where half of the poster is the before situation and the rest is the after situation

But you can also make a poster to show the result of missing conservation, again with a before and after situation of stals. An old photo of the Original situation next to the current trashed situations. Amy showed an example of the the elephant ears
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=18532.msg240106#msg240106

 

[Pitlamp]

This may not be especially helpful but I'm a member of two major Dales clubs and I can confirm that many individuals get involved in a great deal of cave conservation work. As a result there seems little need for it to be formally co-ordinated as a club thing. So when I looked through the options in the poll at the start of this topic I couldn't find anything which matches my own experience of what fellow club members do.

In fact I've generally found that when some of the more impressive conservation efforts have taken place it's generally because of a few folk recognising a problem and quietly sorting it. I came across a problem recently in a cave near Ingleton and the first thing I did was look on Descent's "Adopt A Cave" list. This told me the name of a club which had already undertaken to look after the cave in question. (I intend to make contact to discuss this shortly; they're a good bunch and I'm sure they'll be interested in what I have to say!)

None of the above is in any way a criticism of Chris or his original post.
He's just attempting to have the "conservation conversation" - which should be supported.

 

[bagpuss]

I'd certainly think producing some sort of informative/thought provoking poster for club huts would be a good idea.

Maybe also for shops.

You can make a poster with a message to encourage clean-up actions
A before / after photo about a clean-up of sinkhole where half of the poster is the before situation and the rest is the after situation

But you can also make a poster to show the result of missing conservation, again with a before and after situation of stals. An old photo of the Original situation next to the current trashed situations. Amy showed an example of the the elephant ears
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=18532.msg240106#msg240106

Maybe also with some info about how to conduct conservation work, because presumably it's possible to cause more harm than good if things aren't done correctly? (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[bagpuss]

We are proactive in terms of mentioning all the important points to newcomers & I know club members who tidy up mines. In terms of cave conservation (aside from picking up rubbish as we go) how would a club go about getting involved with more of this side of things? I'd be more than willing to help out, but would have no idea who to approach.

A starting point might be the Conservation Officer of your local access body - CNCC, CSCC, DCA etc. If you're caving in the Dales, pm me.

Our club is Bristol based, so cave on Mendip, will contact the CSCC officer. It would be useful though if more info was available online in terms of what clubs can do to help.

 

[Leclused]

I'd certainly think producing some sort of informative/thought provoking poster for club huts would be a good idea.

Maybe also for shops.

You can make a poster with a message to encourage clean-up actions
A before / after photo about a clean-up of sinkhole where half of the poster is the before situation and the rest is the after situation

But you can also make a poster to show the result of missing conservation, again with a before and after situation of stals. An old photo of the Original situation next to the current trashed situations. Amy showed an example of the the elephant ears
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=18532.msg240106#msg240106

Maybe also with some info about how to conduct conservation work, because presumably it's possible to cause more harm than good if things aren't done correctly? (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Off course, the poster is the eyecatcher. Conservation techniques need to be explained by an in-depth booklet or presemtation. For an example see the comservation section of my club website.
Www.scavalon.be

 

[cap n chris]

Maybe also with some info about how to conduct conservation work, because presumably it's possible to cause more harm than good if things aren't done correctly? (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Indeed. Generally calcite is best cleaned just using pressured water (hand held pumps), NOT brushes! If it is super-robust flowstone then powered pressure washers can be used to great effect providing you can safely get them running underground, plus water supply.

Mending stal is a different matter and there are lots of "it depends" considerations.

Taping has lots of options.

Litter picking is easypeasy.

Rather than write essays the best approach is probably to do a conservation session in a worthy cave and cover all the relevant points then. Southern Professional and Conservation Cavers are aiming to do further workshops along these lines but probably after the summer when people have a bit more time and the weather's not so fabulous that you want to sit outside slurping ice creams!

 

[Peter Burgess]

Apart from taping, all these things, though worthy, are not conservation, they are restoration. It is an important distinction. A properly conserved cave should rarely need any restoration work. Solve the root cause of the issue and restoration measures are not going to be needed. Teach cavers how to keep caves in pristine condition, not how to clean them up later.

 

[Leclused]

Apart from taping, all these things, though worthy, are not conservation, they are restoration. It is an important distinction. A properly conserved cave should rarely need any restoration work. Solve the root cause of the issue and restoration measures are not going to be needed. Teach cavers how to keep caves in pristine condition, not how to clean them up later.

And gating, defining go and no go zones with pictograms, official protection by law national and international (ramsar), installing progression aids to avoid concretions, etc etc etc. These are all conservation techniques in and outside the field. All these techniques combined with restoration techniques are for me part off cave conservation. But that's my opinion 

 

[cap n chris]

Teach cavers how to keep caves in pristine condition

Any ideas?

Based on the training prize on offer and the lack of entries*, the majority of clubs** don't do much in the way of training/coaching in any topic let alone this one, more's the pity.

* It's not too late for your club to have a training/coaching event where you can take photos, write a fascinating, witty, informative, poem/essay/diatribe, and win win win win 300 metres of rope!

** UBSS excepted. Plus others which will no doubt be mentioned imminently.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Conservation starts with discovery. What to do as soon as a cave is found and exploration starts. After that, what areas of the cave are deemed fine for footfall and which are not is going to be a judgement that will vary according to the nature of the site and what features are deemed worthy of serious protection - deposits, formations, wildlife, archaeology, and in the case of mines, artefacts, formations, minerals, inscriptions, archaeology. Teaching all this is far more of a challenge than cleaning and restoring. However, a good dose of restoration might soon instil in cavers a better sense of what not to do in a cave, and what measures might make a cave easier to look after in the long term.