Cottage Fees Question

[Brains]

A small curiosity of life, the SMC hut not a stone's throw away from the Grampian hut in Elphin (see http://www.smc.org.uk/Huts/Huts.php ) charges ?8 per night verses ?5 for what looks like a very similar standard of accommodation.  Do climbers have more money than cavers?

Of course they do - all those shiney janglies and fancy boots and lycra tights need replacing so often because fashion is a harsh mistresss. Must be a rich persons hobby these days, no more just using the washing line  :tease:

 

[martinr]

well said jules - not everybody is in their mid forties, well established career and reasonable expendable income.

I dont understand the logic of "well its cost you ?50 quid petrol, you're happy to spend ?3 on a pint therefore you should be happy to pay more for a hut". 
Its more like - its already cost me ?50quid in petrol, I cant believe beer is now ?3.00 a pint and I'm certainly not happy about it so its a bloody good job the hut is only a fiver otherwise I'd give up coming for the weekend.

I am genuinely drinking much less these days on the grounds that its too bloody expensive.

Just because the price of beer and petrol are inflating out of control, why should hut fee's.  In a fair world, the income made in fees should match the cost of upkeep, with a little bit of profit that can be ploughed back in in some way, therefore the only reason for an increase should be if the cost of upkeep has increased or a significant improvement is planned and needs to be funded, not just the fact someone thinks "fee's are really cheap compared with X"

[/2p]

Funny how people will pay good money for a Scurion but balk at the thought of paying a couple of quid extra for improving their club hut

 

[Peter Burgess]

well said jules - not everybody is in their mid forties, well established career and reasonable expendable income.

I dont understand the logic of "well its cost you ?50 quid petrol, you're happy to spend ?3 on a pint therefore you should be happy to pay more for a hut". 
Its more like - its already cost me ?50quid in petrol, I cant believe beer is now ?3.00 a pint and I'm certainly not happy about it so its a bloody good job the hut is only a fiver otherwise I'd give up coming for the weekend.

I am genuinely drinking much less these days on the grounds that its too bloody expensive.

Just because the price of beer and petrol are inflating out of control, why should hut fee's.  In a fair world, the income made in fees should match the cost of upkeep, with a little bit of profit that can be ploughed back in in some way, therefore the only reason for an increase should be if the cost of upkeep has increased or a significant improvement is planned and needs to be funded, not just the fact someone thinks "fee's are really cheap compared with X"

[/2p]

Funny how people will pay good money for a Scurion but balk at the thought of paying a couple of quid extra for improving their club hut

No way can I afford to buy a super lamp. There are cavers who can splash money about to get the best kit and there are cavers who do not have the means to. And we all share the same facilities. Perhaps the rich cavers should go and set up their own clubs with their own expensive cottages and leave those who have to cave on a low budget to do the best we can. Or perhaps we could just learn to appreciate that facilities are basic to allow as many cavers as possible to use them, and not, as Sam says, find that the cottage fee is the last straw that stops them enjoying a good weekend away. And especially if they have young dependents who also like to get away to go caving from time to time. Are we not supposed to encourage youngsters to take up cheap active sports?

 

[jarvist]

For the record, SWCC is currently ?2.50 for members, ?4.50 for guests and visiting clubs (although pre-booked university clubs pay ?3.50).

Just to offer a University CC perspective on this, the cost of accommodation is a major issue in planning a weekend trip. The low cost of the WSG & SWCC huts makes South Wales the obvious destination for the early trips in the university term with lots of new members.

Certainly for Imperial the only Union trip subsidy is for Travel (diesel & minibus hire), so each and every ? of accommodation has to be passed onto the students. I'm fairly certain this will be the same across UK universities.

Imperial try and keep the 'whole weekend' student cost to ~?35, this includes the ?15 or so travel subsidy per student. It's difficult enough to hit this budget with the food & fuel price inflation, and reduction in higher education funding from the government, we've seen over the last few years.

The trespass fees & high hut costs in Derbyshire make it an uneconomical destination for more than a trip or two a year.

Undergraduate home students do not buy much beer in the pub -- they simply cannot afford it. Bierre D'Or in front of a caving hut fire is more the style on a weekend.

I've always got the sense that UK caving had a strong working class background. Certainly today it is one of the cheapest adventure sports, which is available for students & young adults who can't afford the snowboard / flights / rack / drysuit / mountain bike for any of the others.
It would be a great shame if people were priced out of it by a creeping gentrification of the club huts.

 

[Bob Mehew]

You been throwing stones at the neighbours again Bob?  :spank:

No need to, their hut has been closed following severe water damage in December until next July.  :  Praise be to Ivan and his trace heating of all water pipes.

 

[SamT]

Funny how people will pay good money for a Scurion but balk at the thought of paying a couple of quid extra for improving their club hut

No expensive lights for me - ?70 Bisun in a 20 year old oldham cap lamp that I had kicking about with a duo battery pack that was kindly donated by Tony Seddon as the lamp end was knackered.

At what point do a baulk - our club doesn't have a hut, and if I stayed at another club hut that advertised something like - "fee's up by ?2  to raise funds for the new log burning stove/kitchen/showers, I wouldn't bat an eye lid.
:tease:

 

[Amy]

I loved the cottages there. So awesome! I didn't have any chance to grocery shop (can't exactly pack a ton of food from the states, and never had a chance when I was there lacking transportation and all) but I never went hungry with pubs being around, and people making me tea all the time. I rarely ate anyway was so full-up on tea! lol. <3 you all.

I think the fees there could be a bit higher, but really, it made it easy access and readily available for me. Conversion rate ?5 is $8.20. Camping here (with hot showers free, and running water at the site itself) is $12-$15 so I could see it go up to ?6 or ?7 or so, but outside of that since really it is camping indoors, I can't see paying much more than that fairly.

I don't understand the "Well you pay more to get here so why not pay more for stay?" philosophy - erm...yeah if *I* make it there I already spend $800 or so in flight, another $150 on trains (seems to make a loop around the UK it is around $150 always) and being, well I can't claim poor grad student but I am  a poor researcher making only $16k/year and I have a freakin' Masters degree now and 9 years experience, 4 industry and 5 acedemia labs. Which personally is piss-poor salary (I should be making at least $45k, even graduate students make $20k and they have less experience *and* getting their courses paid for!) So no, getting there is enough of a hassle financial wise. I caved there on a Corona primary ($40) and a crappy Coleman in my pack for backup ($15). No Scurions or whatever here! I finally was able to get myself an Apex (used, so only paid $60). I want a Pantin to turn my frog into a frogwalker but I'm waiting for one to come up used 'cause I can't afford $75 for a new one!

Maybe put up a donation pot or something, for those people who *do* have some extra disposable income they can help the club with if they want?

Well that's just some silly American's two cents. I would say 2p but that's worth more than cents and I really can't afford the conversion rate right now

Look, you all have an freakin' awesome setup there. Don't ruin it for all us not-as-established folks by turning into a moneymaking thing that we can't afford, k? Think about the future of caving - the young crowd who *can't* afford things right now. If you shy them all away with making it too expensive for them, what'll happen then?

 

[Amy]

I am inclined to think that if women are going to go down dark wet cold slimy muddy holes then they are quite happy with basic but clean facilities.

Give me a tent and a firepit and a clean lake/river nearby to wash up in, I'm good! lol

But the cottages...they rock. I keep bugging people here to get them. I acutally found out a gal wanted to donate her house (she lives in TAG area) to convert to a club hut in her will but no one wanted it! THE INSANITY! I  mean sheesh, that covers the whole have-to-buy-it thing! Ah well, going to TAG in a few weeks and Mudpup invited us to stay with him ^.^ so that works and then camping at Buck's Pocket later. It's a nicer campground, so it's $12/night (?7) on site water hose thing and up at the bathrooms free hot showers =)

 

[AndyF]

LOL OK I surrender, I just can't disagree with Amy's posts

..so for once I'm going to shut up!! 

There is no doubt that smartening up some huts would loose their character, and its right that there are more upmarket places bunkhouses for those that want them. Points taken.

 

[Fulk]

Quoter from AndyF:

I don't want to go to O.T. but just tying up with the other thread on why there are relatively few female/family/ethnic cavers, the quality of facilities has a bearing I think. "Blokes" will put up with anything but I think if caving does want to appeal to a wider spectrum then upgrading facilities is a good step.

Continental huts are not like UK huts, and there is a reason for that...

I'm not quite sure what AndyF's point is here; over the last couple of years I've stayed in several huts in England, Wales and Scotland, and have absolutely no cause for complaint about the standard of accommodation (though I did have a problem with one hut on account  of the previous occupants leaving such a mess ? but that was nothing to do with the hut as such). I think Amy's hit the nail on the head with her comments.

 

[Amy]

There is no doubt that smartening up some huts would loose their character, and its right that there are more upmarket places bunkhouses for those that want them. Points taken.

Have you seen the painted caving tile backsplashes at the Wessex in the bathrooms? I saw both (snuck into the guy's bathroom to see theirs, heehee) I thought that was really fancy and cool!

Also they are huts for cavers - no denying mud is gonna get around. Especially the areas designated for it but still no matter carefulness people are traipsing through all the time, gonna track mud from outside or the muddy areas or whatever. And yet, everything is crazy clean I think, the floors just got a bit dirty with the mud tracking but that's going to happen in any group situation when you are dealing with outdoor activities. And...if you're not ok with a little mud, you're likely not a caver so you'd not be in a club hut anyway

Really I was so impressed with how clean and awesome everything was. I stayed at the Wessex one and the Dump, and both were just perfect for caving I thought, the setup of how you could come in through a cleanup area to contain muddyness, get stuff washed off and hung in rooms to dry (what, seriously, you have facilities for that? we don't here!) and showers right there too even...it was like a streamlined de-mud-assembly-system at both places. Not sure what all the fuss about stuff is! Want a 5-star hotel go get one! lol.

I wrote an article for the SMG and SJVG newsletters here, and I spent a good 2 paragraphs about the cottages and community and pubs and everything there, because it is something so different from here, and so incredible, and I still blabber about it to anyone here who will listen because we really need to get stuff like that put together at least a couple in TAG and other concentrated caving areas. We have some huge grottos so you'd think something could be put together, or something with two grottos working togehter, or something! I was told "Oh we do have cabins!" right...wooden shelters is a better term. Electricity? Running water? Nope. You're better off camping, really. The facilities are better. Wifi? LOL certainly not! (I was REALLY shocked that ya'all have WIFI there! And I put money into the wifi donation bins even since I was using it to post trip reports on cavechat and upload photos and stuff )

Ya'all have it great. Keep being awesome!

 

[owd git]

It could be that we have; youth hostels, b&b, motels and a vast range of hotels; club huts are surly club huts! 

I hope that was a typo! I know plenty of surly cavers but the huts are generally pleasant enough!

.
oops :-[
O.G.

 

[ttxela]

I reckon the current sort of prices are about right, if they need to go up to pay for some improvements or repairs or to cover running costs fair enough, but to put them up just because they seem cheap don't seem right  :thumbsdown:

I regularly stay at either Magpie, OCC, or the Stump with young T and her sometimes her cousins or other friends and even at these rates the cost of the group as a whole soon adds up for a long weekend or similar.

We love staying in club huts, some are more basic than others but all are special places we can live by more relaxed rules than at home  . Please don't muck it up for us by making them so nice that Mrs T wants to come along all the time too