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Covid travel restrictions and Police fines etc.

PeteHall

Moderator
I'd be very interested to see how many of these fines actually stand up in court. There is after all nothing in the law about how far you can travel for outdoor exercise.


[gmod]Split from post about Police fining climbers in Cheddar Gorge at https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=27572[/gmod]
 

mikem

Well-known member
But will anyone take it there? - as will cost you more than ?200 to contest, even if your costs are covered...
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Seems pretty clear to me...

The term ?local area? in this context has not been legally defined.

However, people should be sensible about this - if you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should stay local in the village, town, or part of the city where you live - unless there is a justifiable reason not to do so (for example, you need to travel further for work or to avoid harm).

Department of Health

The legislation does not stipulate how far someone is able to travel for exercise. As per the government guidance, ?stay local? means stay in the village, town or part of the city where you live. We are only able to enforce regulations based on the reasons why someone is out of their home ? there is no mention about distance or travel in the regulations.

Leicestershire Police

?UK Government guidance strongly requests that people do not leave their local area. However, the Covid Regulations which officers enforce and which enables them to issue FPNs for breaches, do not restrict the distance travelled for exercise.

?Police officers will be inquisitive about why people are out of their homes and will explain the regulations and encourage people to comply. 

Where people are breaching the regulations and are away from home without a reasonable excuse, they may be issued with a FPN.  In situations where people are breaching the guidance not to travel out their local area but are not breaching regulations, officers will encourage people to follow the guidance.?

Derbyshire Police

 

sinker

New member
PeteHall said:
I'd be very interested to see how many of these fines actually stand up in court. There is after all nothing in the law about how far you can travel for outdoor exercise.

While the letter of the law may not be clear, the spirit of it is....STAY AT HOME! DO NOT DRIVE 30 MILES TO VISIT CHEDDAR GORGE!! FFS!!! What is wrong with people?!
They shouldn't be doing it, they KNOW they shouldn't and anyone defending them should know better.
You can find a 'loophole' to get around a lot of things in life; doesn't mean you should.
 

mikem

Well-known member
Although Cummings wasn't under current legislation - that was Boris' bike ride.

Latest rescuees would struggle to argue that they couldn't have got the same experience at a closer venue e.g. Avon gorge.
 

AR

Well-known member
There were some total knob-flakes from Luton who got stuck iup at Cat & Fiddle this last weekend - told the local plods they wanted to come and take some photos of snow, who then did some checks and found the car they'd come up in was a little lacking on the insurance front...
 

maxb727

Member
They wouldn?t have been fined if they hadn?t of gotten themselves in a situation requiring rescue. What we don?t know is their experience and ability, maybe this was a completely unexpected situation. On the other hand they might have been out of their ability and taking a few too many risks.

Either way a large number of people had to go to assist them, bringing more people together than ideal currently.

Whatever the rules are or aren?t, it?s very hard to argue the fact that they caused unnecessary interactions.
 

ZombieCake

Active member
Maybe, if they'd driven around long enough to check their eyesight was OK they would not have got stuck as they would have been able to see the potential dangers of the situation.

Or, they could have stayed home and watched the goggle box like everyone else.

The problem was really set by precedent long ago with the likes of complete idiots like Fergusson and Cummings sticking two fingers up to the public.  That is the so-called establishment saying one thing and then doing another while people suffer. 
 

2xw

Active member
mikem said:
But will anyone take it there? - as will cost you more than ?200 to contest, even if your costs are covered...

The students who were fined ?10k for having a party got free representation and had the fines overturned. I'm not sure there's actually a right of appeal, so just waiting to decide if you will be prosecuted might be enough
 

sinker

New member
mikem said:
Yeah, for 10k it's worth the time & effort.

Sorry but that logic is ridiculous....it's like saying that if you've murdered someone and are facing a life sentence then it's "worth the time and effort" to get yourself off!!??!!

You did something you shouldn't have done. (went to Cheddar Gorge / had a party / murdered someone)
You got caught (fair cop)
Take it on the chin!
Learn from it.

That's life innit...?

 

tomferry

Active member
sinker said:
mikem said:
Yeah, for 10k it's worth the time & effort.

Sorry but that logic is ridiculous....it's like saying that if you've murdered someone and are facing a life sentence then it's "worth the time and effort" to get yourself off!!??!!

You did something you shouldn't have done. (went to Cheddar Gorge / had a party / murdered someone)
You got caught (fair cop)
Take it on the chin!
Learn from it.

That's life innit...?

Problem Is now days the majority of people are to thick in the head to learn from their mistakes  , they need a lot more harsh fines need to stick at least another zero on that ?200
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Get a boldly grip! Travelling 30 miles for outdoor exercise is hardly on par with murdering someone, in anybody's book.  :mad:

As per the police quotes above, if no law has been broken, they should not be handing out a fine. If they do it should be challenged. It's called respecting the law.

Police fining people who have not broken the law should not be tolerated in a free society. This is not a police state, where the police are above the law, or can invent new laws on a whim.
 

sinker

New member
PeteHall said:
Get a boldly grip! Travelling 30 miles for outdoor exercise is hardly on par with murdering someone, in anybody's book.  :mad:

You could have blood on your hands either way. Actually or metaphorically.

It's not a police state.
Get on your high horse about ?200 fines for littering or for driving 2mph over the speed limit. Challenge that sort of daftness all day long but when we are in the middle of an ever changing global pandemic and people are dying before our very eyes you need to grow up, man up and back down.

Anyway, you know you're wrong. That's enough for me.

Right, can someone explain how to delete my profile and unsubscribe from UKC please. Or just ban me if its quicker.
I've seen enough. I'll wait until AN is back up and running next year. Back to some common sense.

 

mikem

Well-known member
Just don't look at it... (Cavers aren't known for their societal norms)

The problem isn't the police, it's that the government have said one thing in their guidance & then not backed it up with the legislation. So a lot of the fines issued aren't legal.
 

tomferry

Active member
I respect it?s the governments fault and they should of made it legislation/law , I still can?t help  feel that all these idiots going out making a cave / mine rescue happen is just slowing it down for the rest of us to get out .  The rescue teams are doing their  job/hobby which is great but sadly one of them might not no they have Covid and give it to another 50 people just because some one feels the need to go underground in the middle of a pandemic ? They do need to make this law and ramp the fines up until covid is controlled enough for us all to go out and do what we love .
 

royfellows

Well-known member
sinker said:
Right, can someone explain how to delete my profile and unsubscribe from UKC please. Or just ban me if its quicker.
I've seen enough. I'll wait until AN is back up and running next year. Back to some common sense.

Please no old friend.
Its going to be along time.
Kinda, explains AN rules though a bit, Mmm.
 
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