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Critique!

Coxie

New member
My first photography effort.

I know there's loads of issues with composition, lighting and stuff but any constructive criticism / advice appreciated.

photostream


photostream


photostream


My biggest problem seemed to be keeping my equipment clean dry and the lens of my waterproof housing blemish free... I took it out in the end to get the last two photo's above.

 

Rob

Well-known member
Hi Coxie.
If posting an image from Flickr, go to "All Sizes" at the top, then select "Medium", then right click-properties-address...
Good luck...
 

Coxie

New member
Rob said:
Hi Coxie.
If posting an image from Flickr, go to "All Sizes" at the top, then select "Medium", then right click-properties-address...
Good luck...

Thanks Rob


4363896686_d137994aeb.jpg


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4363075863_d646946efd.jpg

 

footleg

New member
I love the self portrait (taken with the camera under water?).

For the other pictures, were you working on your own? I'm guessing you had a single flash which you are firing manually in the picture yourself? The back lighting on the ceiling in the first of these pictures is really nice, but it is difficult to see what the scene is. The second picture shows the scene, but is a bit flat. If you could combine these different lighting effects in one image using two flashes then it might work quite well. Certainly the exposure and focus look pretty good, especially for a first effort.
 

robjones

New member
The first version is reasonably close to what a fellow caver mine explorer following behind would see from the random spills of light from the person in front's caplamp, however, whilst atmospheric shots that give an impression of an underground space as seen by a caver are currently 'in', they are usually adjudged to be 'good' if there is either more drama (silhouettes and such) or the viewer can better see the pasage shape or layout. Success on these criteria tends to be down to detailed pre-planning the shot and taking multiple versions (which is where digital comes into its own though you still need a lot of flash batteries).

The second version is closer to the 'standard silhouette shot' whilst also giving quite a lot of accurate but also atmospheric information about the surroundings. Better framing so as not to truncate the figure would have greatly improved it - difficult to achieve when working solo (which I presume you were doing?). Trick is to set camera on tripod and use caplamp held off helmit and slightly ahead of camera (to avoid glare destroying your night vision) and scanning around to check where the edges of the shot actually are, and then planning where you will stand accordingly. You can always mark the spot with a rock. The hard thing when doing silhouette-type shots is to avoid unintentional glare off close-up bits of wall/floor/roof, or off unexpectedly bits of light walls/floor/roof. In the case of this shot, had you angled the flash a bit more to the right, you would probably have avoided the glare at the lower left.

If these are your first attempts at underground photography then you're off to a useful start. Just keep trying variations; multiple-flash shots are the next obvious progression. Have fun!
 

Coxie

New member
footleg said:
were you working on your own?

Yep and these are 2 of about twenty that I took, the rest of which either over or under exposed in parts due I think to poor positioning of the flash.  I also struggled with the lens fogging up very quickly.

Thanks for the advice chaps... Bloody difficult this cave photography.

  :-\ Note to self - Must locate willing model.
 

rsch

Member
If you haven't already, you might find it useful to have a good look through the forum pool on flickr. http://www.flickr.com/groups/ukcaving/pool/

Seeing lots of examples of the different sorts of shots a variety of other people take may give you some good ideas, and sometimes just looking at a picture and working out how it was done can be, er, illuminating. You'll find clues about how the camera was set up to achieve that effect in the exif data where it's shown, and you can ask directly if it's not apparent to you what's happening lightingwise in a particular shot.

Then when you get a good feel for what the limitations of your flash set-up are, you'll be able to develop more of your own style based not just on what you can and can't do, but also on what you like about what you've seen others do.

But the most important thing is to keep taking your camera out and keep taking pictures!
 

robjones

New member
Coxie said:
  :-\ Note to self - Must locate willing model.

Underground photographic assistants - call them models if that's necessary to get them involved -  require a lot of bribery (beer, mainly)... Though not quite as much as surveying assistants who get colder and don't get pretty pictures after the trip - an incomplete longitudinal section is not quite as attractive to most folk as a dramatic picture of derring-do!
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
I'd say you had picked up the most important essential of cave photograpy which is 'flash off the camera'. Cave photography is in that respect very similar to underwater photography in that the medium you are looking through is usually full of water, in a cave it's vapour but still very apparent.  By the way Footleg if you read this I have a technical question. I bought some Wein slave units from the states on the recommendation of Anne Bosted. They work really well but at times they seem to require the flash gun to charge up way beyond the time the ready light shows. Is that because they draw their power from the flashgun rather  than having integral batteries like the firefly and if so is it just a case of being patient when taking several shots in one place?!!
 

Hatstand

New member
Also the "flash off the camera" helps with not flattening everything by having the light in line with the viewer. Its one of the reasons I love turning my lamp off and watching the cave from everyone else's light as they approach, it looks so much better! (Thats my story and I'm sticking to it, nothing to do with making my battery last longer!)
 

robjones

New member
Underground photographic assistants will:

*carry heavy ammo boxes of photo gear over and above all the usual SRT rope etc;

*stand under mini-waterfalls/in waist deep cold water/adjacent to bottomless voids with their lights off to fire flashes on command;

*repeat flashes endlessly as the photographic maestro trys endless slightly varient shots;

*take the blame for the flash malfunctioning when it gets wet even though they were carrying out the maestro's instructions to the letter by standing in a wet place;

* put up with tantrums of frustration from the maestro caused by repeat condensation on the lense elements; endless electrinic failures; endless flashes going off at the wrong time/ pointed in not quite the right direction; tripod collapsing and camera falling in water/mud/ochre; forgetting small but key bits of kit (e.g. cable release) that cause entire trips to be aborted after reaching the deepest part of a system;

* be (reasonably) happy to repeat entire trips to improve upon merely 'satisfactory' shots.


Hence the need for rewards in beer, pub meals, and a reasonably decent number of good shots that preferably show the u.p.a. in heroic poses / admiring stunning stal / not having their mouths open or eyes crossed.

i.e. once you get a good and committed mug, sorry, u.p.a.,  - KEEP 'EM HAPPY!
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
+ photographer forgetting to put film in his camera :cry:. Only twice in 40 years but am i allowed to forget it :cautious:
 

robjones

New member
Peter Burgess said:
The best photographic assistant is another photographer, taking photos on the same trip.

Makes for a really slow trip - two shots of everything from every position.

Wierdest result of such an arrangment was on a continental SRT trip. Ascending first, I looked back at friend at a changeover just below and said 'That looks really good!' Friend said 'Well, take a photo with my camera then!'. So I took a few, with different lighting effects. Friend was really pleased with results. So pleased, in fact, that he entered one in the BCRA Annual Conference photo salon - with him named as photographer  :confused: . It was a lovely atmospheric shot - SRT by carbide light in a fairly wide fluted rift. To his dismay, the quality of the shot was barely mentioned; in fact it was dismissed as sending the wrong message due to multiple twisted ropes and poor rigging!  :-[
 

Peter Burgess

New member
robjones said:
Peter Burgess said:
The best photographic assistant is another photographer, taking photos on the same trip.

Makes for a really slow trip - two shots of everything from every position.

That's not my experience. When I have done this, we inevitably want photos of different things in different places. We learn off each other and end up with better results. It is rare that I have been slowed down waiting for someone else as we tend to get on with preparations at the same time, setting up different photos in locations close to each other.

However, I don't agonise too much over every shot, but then again I have never won any competitions!
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
Depends on photographic style. If you have two photographers using different set ups that can be dire. I went over to slaves years ago and my friend Pete was still on open flash and 123 fire so you can imagine how frustrating that was. Taking pics now with digitals and slaves having 2 phtographers is a lot more stress free. In fact last trip we used one camera and I just handed it over to my daughter to take the shots she wanted to try - so at last a few more pics of me underground attempting to be the perfect model.
 

Les W

Active member
I was once on a photographic trip with both the Bosteads and Dave Bunnell at the same time.  :eek:

It was quite fractious as both photographers wanted the same shots and were constantly having to wait for each others locations. In one chamber they had to take it in turns as their flashes were firing each others slaves and overexposing their shots. Not Ideal.  :-\

One photographer on a trip is already one photographer too many. Still, it's nice to see the pictures after.  (y)
 
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