Cumbria coal mine go-ahead

Fjell

Well-known member
It’s a company from abroad putting money into West Cumbria. What’s the downside really? Something to do for those who don’t work for Sellafield. There is a bit of a gap between those who do and those who don’t.
 

speleokitty3

New member
I'm a bit puzzled by the reference to it having too much sulphur, the whole point of the coking process is to remove sulphur, so that in the partial burn of a blast furnace, you only get carbon monoxide generated and no/negligible sulphur dioxide.
Yes, that's one but not the only reason to produce coke. Judging by the smell of sulphur in Port Talot, I would guess that the coking coal they use isn't especially low in sulphur. Most of the sulphur is removed in the blast furnace anyway where it combines with limestone in the charge and the remainder is removed using a variety of other techniques.

Sulphur is actually added back into some specialised steel and other iron- based alloys in some cases.

I've only heard activists say that the coal isn't suitable, and I have heard them say a lot of other things about steel making that aren't true.
 

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
I think it's unlikely people would commit to investing in a mine with coal that's known to be either unsuitable or unsellable. The whole sales pitch was that this coal *was* of a type and quality that was needed unlike German/Polish Lignite, South African bituminous etc etc

Edit: a little more info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodhouse_Colliery but specifics on the grade of coal are hard to come by, "metallurgical coal" (i.e. suitable for coking) and *not* steam (thermal) coal for "ESI" (Electricity Supply Industry) use is the best I can do. It is purported to be a grade too good for just burning in Drax, but as mentioned exact info it's being kept close to their chest
 
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zzzzzzed

Member

There are some interesting points made in this article about the use of coal in steel production.
 

alanw

Well-known member

There are some interesting points made in this article about the use of coal in steel production.
I wonder how many who in the 80's "dug deep for the miners" are now demonstrating against coal and fracking?
 

ttxela2

Active member
I thought people here liked mines?
Well... I think people on here like old mines and mining history - and probably have a fair interest in modern mining as well.

That probably doesn't (or shouldn't) translate into immediate unconditional support for any mining operation proposed.

I'm finding it hard to say if I'm in favour or not. The more I read the more compexities I am aware of.
 
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tomferry

Well-known member
There is only 1 bit of truth we all have to remember and ACCEPT.

Englands true source of wealth lies in coal
 

Flotsam

Active member
I suspect that the Green zealots have little understanding of where all their manufactured goods come from and how they are made. Where's the sense in exporting all our industry to China and India and using energy to ship their products here?
There's only one growth industry here, Logistics and warehousing to store and distribute imported goods. Everywhere you go in Britain these days you see massive warehouses
 

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
I suspect that the Green zealots have little understanding of where all their manufactured goods come from and how they are made. Where's the sense in exporting all our industry to China and India and using energy to ship their products here?
There's only one growth industry here, Logistics and warehousing to store and distribute imported goods. Everywhere you go in Britain these days you see massive warehouses
Absolutely: I agree with you that the old mantra of: reduce, reuse, and only last... recycle, got lost to many people years ago and unabated consumption has become unquestioned, so it becomes a matter of bean-counting local carbon quotas and if made in China it's not on our tally. If we outsource manufacture to China/India etc not only do we need to worry about shipping like you mention but we must question if some goods made in China would be manufactured as environmentally carefully as in UK/Europe. Primary steel production is the big one in this thread. If X tons of steel are made in India using their local coal and transported to UK, will that be more or less polluting (not just the CO2 equiv) than making the same amount of steel in UK using UK coal/coke? If anyone has any figures that would be interesting. </RANT>

On a lighter and historical note to do with logistics and maybe interest to people who find bottles in mines. It wasn't so long ago that things like soft drinks were produced and bottled fairly locally, like artefacts for Kay's of Llandudno or WH Hill in Llandudno (Ginger beer, mineral waters etc in stone and glass bottles).
Anyone here remember returning a bottle to a shop and getting 10p? Bottles don't get returned these days because it'd be the other side of the country to get them back to producer (even if they were all glass). This is another factor for all the logistics on the roads.
 
I suspect that the Green zealots have little understanding of where all their manufactured goods come from and how they are made. Where's the sense in exporting all our industry to China and India and using energy to ship their products here?
Post war there were hundreds of coal mines in the UK. It was economics and capitalism that closed them down, not Green zealots.
Same reason that we buy cheap general goods from abroad. They're cheap. Again no cause to point a finger at the tree-huggers there either.
 

Fjell

Well-known member
What shut down coal was the Leman, Inde and other big southern North Sea gas fields that came on stream in the 80’s and 90’s. Coal demand collapsed. What is causing the UK big trouble now is they are heavily depleted and will mostly be gone by 2040. So just enough time to build a lot of nuclear power.

Coal mining is a nasty business to work in that should not be overly encouraged. I can see the need for metallurgical coal, but not for heat.
 

mikem

Well-known member
I don't know if we make more for exporting fish than we pay for importing, but it's still an increasing market:

Retail & wholesale just beat health & social care for number of employees:

Our biggest money earners nowadays are finance and consultancy, but construction and car sales are still up there:
 
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