Deepest caves in the Peak
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
Rob
Well-known member
OK, a quick update of where things sit currently:
1. 268m Peak Speedwell
2. 211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3. 180m Nettle Pot
4. 146m Rowter Hole*
5. 145m Winnats Head
6. 125m Waterways Swallet
7. 97m Robins Shaft*
8. 90m Blue John Cavern
9. 82m Eldon Hole
10. 76m Hungerhill Swallet
11. 70m P8 Jackpot
12. 70m Christmas Swallet
13. 64m Bagshaw Cavern*
14. 61m Carlswark/Merlin*
15. 56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
16. 55m Lathkill Head Cave
17. 53m Darfar Pot
Not sure now long Rowter is going to be on this list for though...
1. 268m Peak Speedwell
2. 211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3. 180m Nettle Pot
4. 146m Rowter Hole*
5. 145m Winnats Head
6. 125m Waterways Swallet
7. 97m Robins Shaft*
8. 90m Blue John Cavern
9. 82m Eldon Hole
10. 76m Hungerhill Swallet
11. 70m P8 Jackpot
12. 70m Christmas Swallet
13. 64m Bagshaw Cavern*
14. 61m Carlswark/Merlin*
15. 56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
16. 55m Lathkill Head Cave
17. 53m Darfar Pot
Not sure now long Rowter is going to be on this list for though...
Speleokitty
New member
146m 
Keep up the good work you slippery omnivores.
Keep up the good work you slippery omnivores.Just curious as that dye trace is not likely to be very accurate
From memory this was done at a time when main rising wasn't flowing and whirlpool was, so that may affect things.
The biggest problem was that the guys who put the dye in were after a sneak preview of the latest discovery, but did not as it turned out go that far. They thought there was only one stream and so put the dye in the water running through the final squeeze in the choke.
That means the result is from water running into the big static (?) sump pool and then through the sewer until it disappears into the boulder below the aven.
Despite very careful checking in low water conditions I never saw this come back into the main downstream pitch route.
This means the main stream in the new extensions has never been tested
No test has been done to see if the original WHC stream rejoins the downstream pitch route
And finally none of them has been tested with main rising flowing
Anyone fancy a dye tracing project?
From memory this was done at a time when main rising wasn't flowing and whirlpool was, so that may affect things.
The biggest problem was that the guys who put the dye in were after a sneak preview of the latest discovery, but did not as it turned out go that far. They thought there was only one stream and so put the dye in the water running through the final squeeze in the choke.
That means the result is from water running into the big static (?) sump pool and then through the sewer until it disappears into the boulder below the aven.
Despite very careful checking in low water conditions I never saw this come back into the main downstream pitch route.
This means the main stream in the new extensions has never been tested
No test has been done to see if the original WHC stream rejoins the downstream pitch route
And finally none of them has been tested with main rising flowing
Anyone fancy a dye tracing project?
Moose
New member
It certainly sounds more complicated than first apparent. My suggestion is to contact John Gunn (if you haven't already) and he'll be able to furnish you with the information re precise injection points etc.
Personally I don't think t would make much difference where in the cave you placed the dye, it would combine and all eventually end up entering Speedwell via one of the main inputs. Very unlikely that one stream in WH would go to MR and then another in close proximity going to WR.
When you say MR 'wasn't flowing' I have never known this to be the case. Yes the flow switches but even when it's switched to WR there's still a certain amount of flow issuing from MR.
Ultimately you're right, there needs to be more research done on this if you (or anyone else can find the time and energy) I am always happier with dye traces when they've been repeated at least once.
Personally I don't think t would make much difference where in the cave you placed the dye, it would combine and all eventually end up entering Speedwell via one of the main inputs. Very unlikely that one stream in WH would go to MR and then another in close proximity going to WR.
When you say MR 'wasn't flowing' I have never known this to be the case. Yes the flow switches but even when it's switched to WR there's still a certain amount of flow issuing from MR.
Ultimately you're right, there needs to be more research done on this if you (or anyone else can find the time and energy) I am always happier with dye traces when they've been repeated at least once.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Moose makes a good point; replication is the best way to work towards certainty.
Just one comment on the flow switching, in case it helps. Main Rising always flows (as Moose says) but when the main allogenic flow (i.e. sinking streams) comes from Whirlpool Rising the water emerging from Main Rising is essentially autogenic (what cavers refer to as "percolation water"). The same applies when the swallet streams are coming from Main Rising - Whirlpool Rising carries essentially autogenic flow.
This is important if you happen to be a sump flopper like me because the autogenic water is what gives the really good visibility.
Anyway, never mind all that. The real prize is Cliffhanger Sump - a big undertaking but potential is very juicy.
Just one comment on the flow switching, in case it helps. Main Rising always flows (as Moose says) but when the main allogenic flow (i.e. sinking streams) comes from Whirlpool Rising the water emerging from Main Rising is essentially autogenic (what cavers refer to as "percolation water"). The same applies when the swallet streams are coming from Main Rising - Whirlpool Rising carries essentially autogenic flow.
This is important if you happen to be a sump flopper like me because the autogenic water is what gives the really good visibility.
Anyway, never mind all that. The real prize is Cliffhanger Sump - a big undertaking but potential is very juicy.
Like Moose says it would be unlikely that the two streams in WHC I referred to go to different spots, but it is interesting that the largest one and the one last seen at the lowest point has never been tested. Whereas the smaller one was tested, but near the point it is last seen which is approximately 250 foot higher. All this could affect the flow times.
I take the point that the MR flow never fully stops, but it would be interesting to see where things come out when flows are "normal"
the whole area is really interesting any chance of a link to the latest survey to of the system with WHC on as well as Cliff caver obviously?
I take the point that the MR flow never fully stops, but it would be interesting to see where things come out when flows are "normal"
the whole area is really interesting any chance of a link to the latest survey to of the system with WHC on as well as Cliff caver obviously?
Rob
Well-known member
Rob
Well-known member
Update as of yesterday:
1. 268m Peak Speedwell
2. 211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3. 180m Nettle Pot
4. 179m Rowter Hole*
5. 145m Winnats Head
6. 125m Waterways Swallet
7. 97m Robins Shaft*
8. 90m Blue John Cavern
9. 82m Eldon Hole
10. 76m Hungerhill Swallet
11. 70m P8 Jackpot
12. 70m Christmas Swallet
13. 64m Bagshaw Cavern*
14. 61m Carlswark/Merlin*
15. 56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
16. 55m Lathkill Head Cave
17. 53m Darfar Pot
Luckily the Badgers can easily progress a couple more vertical meters so shouldn't be long before Rowter overtakes Nettle. Although Nettle hasn't been surveyed for a long time, and then the line tot he bottom involved 4 different parties, so I don't trust that 180m value...
1. 268m Peak Speedwell
2. 211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3. 180m Nettle Pot
4. 179m Rowter Hole*
5. 145m Winnats Head
6. 125m Waterways Swallet
7. 97m Robins Shaft*
8. 90m Blue John Cavern
9. 82m Eldon Hole
10. 76m Hungerhill Swallet
11. 70m P8 Jackpot
12. 70m Christmas Swallet
13. 64m Bagshaw Cavern*
14. 61m Carlswark/Merlin*
15. 56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
16. 55m Lathkill Head Cave
17. 53m Darfar Pot
Luckily the Badgers can easily progress a couple more vertical meters so shouldn't be long before Rowter overtakes Nettle. Although Nettle hasn't been surveyed for a long time, and then the line tot he bottom involved 4 different parties, so I don't trust that 180m value...
Duncan Price
Active member
Rob said:
17. 54m Ilam Main Rising
18. 53m Darfar Pot
Rob
Well-known member
Update:
1. 268m Peak Speedwell
2. 211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3. 182m Rowter Hole*
4. 180m Nettle Pot
5. 145m Winnats Head
6. 125m Waterways Swallet
7. 97m Robins Shaft*
8. 90m Blue John Cavern
9. 82m Eldon Hole
10. 76m Hungerhill Swallet
11. 70m P8 Jackpot
12. 70m Christmas Swallet
13. 66m Water Icicle Cavern*
14. 64m Bagshaw Cavern*
15. 61m Carlswark/Merlin*
16. 56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
17. 55m Lathkill Head Cave
18. 54m Ilam Main Rising
19. 53m Darfar Pot
1. 268m Peak Speedwell
2. 211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3. 182m Rowter Hole*
4. 180m Nettle Pot
5. 145m Winnats Head
6. 125m Waterways Swallet
7. 97m Robins Shaft*
8. 90m Blue John Cavern
9. 82m Eldon Hole
10. 76m Hungerhill Swallet
11. 70m P8 Jackpot
12. 70m Christmas Swallet
13. 66m Water Icicle Cavern*
14. 64m Bagshaw Cavern*
15. 61m Carlswark/Merlin*
16. 56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
17. 55m Lathkill Head Cave
18. 54m Ilam Main Rising
19. 53m Darfar Pot