Discussion re Whillans Harness and other ancient harnesses

[bograt]

Hmm, does that mean I ought to bin my 40 year old Willans Sit Harness ?


[gmod]Split from the original Topic at http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17184.0 [/gmod]

 

[Mark Wright]

Bograt,

I will buy you a couple fo pints for it. It would look good in my museum of caving equipment at our training centre in Rotherham.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[bograt]

DONE Would you like the Troll chest harness to go with it?

I may still have a couple of Troll battery/belay belts lying around as well!

 

[Mark Wright]

Cheers Boggy. Hang on to them both and I will see you soon.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[pwhole]

Mark

A handyman mate recently found an original Don Willans Sit in very good condition in his local charity shop in Sheffield (St. Luke's Hospice on Abbeydale Road - amazing place), and was wondering whether it was safe for doing roof-tiling! We all tried it on, figuring it must be on backwards, due to the giant bollock-crushing strap down the front. But no, it seems that was the right way on. I'm guessing that Don, Chris Bonington (and Bograt) must have the advanced 'retractable bollock system' that we all wish we had.

Phil.

 

[Mark Wright]

Harness technology has moved on considerably since the Troll Whillans harness was first introduced.

Its most unlikely that even a brand new Whillans would pass any of the stringent tests that are required today when testing to the EN813 or EN12277C sit harness standards.

Whilst we always refer to these type of harnesses as being 'sit harnesses' they were never really designed for sitting in, they were designed for falling into.

Anyone who has experienced the 'comfort' that a Whillans harness provides will confirm that it is next to none. When I started caving I made my own harness out of an 8' length of 2" webbing. I was offered a second hand Whillans but stuck with my home made harness as it was a lot more comfortable to sit in.   

Cheers,

Mark

 

[potholer]

The first 'harness' I tried was a pair of Troll leg loops combined with a standard load-bearing belt.
Add in a nicely 'spreading' wetsuit and a narrow pitch where my legs were vertical, and my first trip underground involved my entire bodyweight seemingly being supported evenly on the two things I least wanted it supported on.
Next day I was straight into Inglesport to get some 2" tape, and do the same as Mark.

 

[graham]

Aye, agree with the last two. I had a Whillans but a home tied sit sling was way more comfortable. The only problem was the lack of adjustment so you needed different ones for use with or without a wetsuit.

 

[bograt]

Must admit, the most comfortable sit sling I ever used was a 'Diaper', made from 2" tape and sewn by a local cobbler, Paul(?) Ramsden from Whernside decided that it was not fit for purpose and dumped it somewhere in Easegill, Thanks Paul !!

Thats when I forked out for the Willans.

 

[Bottlebank]

A friend of mine decided ?25 or so was too much to fork out for a sit harness, and made one up out of 2" webbing. He changed his mind at the top of a fifty foot pitch when looked down and realised it had unsewn itself, and was wrapped around his ankles. If it had happened thirty seconds earlier he might not be but fortunately he's still around to tell the tale 

 

[bograt]

A friend of mine decided ?25 or so was too much to fork out for a sit harness, and made one up out of 2" webbing. He changed his mind at the top of a fifty foot pitch when looked down and realised it had unsewn itself, and was wrapped around his ankles. If it had happened thirty seconds earlier he might not be but fortunately he's still around to tell the tale 

Thats why I got the local cobbler to sew it, strong thread on a heavy duty machine!

 

[Bottlebank]

A friend of mine decided ?25 or so was too much to fork out for a sit harness, and made one up out of 2" webbing. He changed his mind at the top of a fifty foot pitch when looked down and realised it had unsewn itself, and was wrapped around his ankles. If it had happened thirty seconds earlier he might not be but fortunately he's still around to tell the tale 

Thats why I got the local cobbler to sew it, strong thread on a heavy duty machine!

He used strong thread on a heavy duty machine. It looked great but the thread gave way after about eighteen months use.

 

[bograt]

Did he double overlap the join? mine lasted 3 years and was good before it was disposed of.

It did Nettle, Eldon, Various Yorkshire pots, etc.---

 

[Bottlebank]

I couldn't tell you - it was a long time ago

 

[Mark Wright]

Like potholer, I too used the Troll combination leg loops and belt. The Troll Rockstar harness is what that combination turned into a little later. This was after using the 8' tape sling. I didn't have acces to a sewing machine that would touch that thickness of material so a simple tape knot is what joined it together, rather uncomfortably.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[robjones]

My first harness was a 1981 hand-sewn copy of a CS leg-loop harness. It was used for a couple of years before abseiling and laddering with only occasional episodes of prussicking gave way to more genuine SRT, prompting the purchase of a Petzl harness. After cutting the stitches out the tape was  recycled for various projects - parts of it are still in use as my pegging hammer holster. 

 

[Fulk]

My first SRT harness was also home-made out of 2-inch tape, but tied rather than sewn, so the stitching couldn't come out.

 

[Pitlamp]

My first "sit harness" was a No.3 Viking nylon hawser laid sling held together with an immense Stubai steel krab. The doubled rope went up through the krab over the right shoulder and was held in the right hand when abseiling - lovely. Mind you, that was better than the traditional method of abseiling (with the rope just threaded round the body) - this makes you realise why the Austrians invented slapping trousers (lederhosen). Then I got a Whillans harness and it was regarded at the time as the height of new technology, despite being appallingly inefficient to prussik with. Once I discovered Petzl harnesses, custom made for caving, I've never used anything else since.

 

[martinm]

OMG, I thought I was only one who made my own!. I also used 2" webbing tape in a Figure 8 arrangement. (Gold, from CS.) However, I tied it with a tape knot and THEN sewed it with polyester/nylon thread (can't remember which now) as well just to be on the safe side. Might still have it, not sure, though I think my current harness (I think) is a Petzl climbing one which is comfortable. Mel.

 

[potholer]

The one I made was tied and not stitched, to make something that was the equivalent of a modern Superavanti in layout.

The two knots, one per side at the end of the waistbelt section to make legloops and maillon attachment loops were a little complicated, but there was a lot of incentive to follow the diagrams in the club newsletter and get them right, and they seemed to be nicely self-tightening.

If I remember correctly, the 2" tape was quite low thickness, and reasonably flexible/foldable, which made it easier to get neat compact knots than if it had been stiff or thick.

It did have to be tied the right size, since adjustment was pretty much impossible, but then, adjustment was close to impossible with a Croll, once it had been used a bit.