Down and up, look-see of Titan?

[Cantclimbtom]

...I know the route out, so you'd be fine if I was there...

Already noted, appreciate the comments! You are on my stalker-list: you can run but you can't hide. I may well knock on your door and ask if you can come out to play . Just possibly the very tail end of this month, but I have a personal matter to sort out which currently makes dates way too unpredictable for me to start throwing any around with any confidence.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Randomish question, if someone did a through trip as a pull through...    has anyone ever used a Beal Escaper in a cave?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loQT_P1HW2U

I'm not sure about it to be honest, it adds a layer of brow-adrenaline in the trousers that might be a step too far if it is already an adrenaline situation. Just asking "for a friend"

 

[Rob]

The Beal Escaper has been discussed a little here already:
https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=25117.0

 

[AlexR]

Titan is a fantastic bit of cave which never gets old - and I've been up and down more often than most.

It is not suitable for a pull-through. It's possible, but it's also possible to poke a honey badger with a pitchfork. The risks and complications in no way justify the benefit, plus you'd have to leave kit behind (i.e. rubbish) which then needs to be cleaned up by someone as Titan is not bolted on P bolts but standard hangers.
[In the interest of full disclosure: I've installed a stainless steel chain Y hang at the top of Titan itself (generously paid for by the Peak Fund) which would make a pull through easier, however its real purpose is to make the high bolts less awkward/ dangerous for the vertically challenged.]

The same really goes for simultaneous prussiking. It takes a fit caver roughly 10-15min to ascend 60m, even if you make that 20-30min for someone taking their time, why risk it for the sake of saving 10min. If you've never tried it, most will find two people on the rope an unnerving experience, the 2nd person moving creates all sort of weird bouncing patterns in the rope.
I've previously had to wait at the bottom for 4 fairly slow cavers to ascend and brought a little stove & hot chocolate in preparation for this, which made the wait much more enjoyable.

If you're keen on a through trip there are many locals who are happy to help, Phil has already put his hand up and I'd be more than happy to show you around Peak/ be a through trip guide, too.

 

[pwhole]

Considering the breadth of different types of cave passage that you pass through en-route, from dry fossil phreatic (and wet phreatic) to active streamway, through mines and back into cave again, that one trip can count as three or four 'regular' trips - it really has it all. The only issue is 'who goes back to get the ropes afterwards?' There are occasionally people around who actually enjoy this sort of thing (see above), so don't despair. Though as a precaution to avoid the rope-jamming issue, put any surplus rope that's lying on the floor in a bag, or at least a bundle, and tie it up just off the floor

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Considering the breadth of different types of cave passage that you pass through en-route, from dry fossil phreatic (and wet phreatic) to active streamway, through mines and back into cave again, that one trip can count as three or four 'regular' trips - it really has it all. The only issue is 'who goes back to get the ropes afterwards?' There are occasionally people around who actually enjoy this sort of thing (see above), so don't despair. Though as a precaution to avoid the rope-jamming issue, put any surplus rope that's lying on the floor in a bag, or at least a bundle, and tie it up just off the floor

Abso ****** lutely, I am desperate to try the trip it really sounds a full on caving smorgasbord, dangly-ropey bits, wriggly-mucky bits, ducks, streamways, boulder squeezes, etc etc. I am still unsure whether I am free in the period Tuesday 28th Sept - Sat 2nd Oct as my life is a little "busy" and I'm not sure if my current job will end on Mon 27th as I hope (or drag on a few days swallowing up my free week), but I am VERY keen to try it.

What I try to do with a few metres of excess rope is gentle coil it so it is off the floor (coil weight helps jumaring) but use an elastic band to hold the rope in the coil. That way if the coil snags somehow pulling it back up, there's the hope that a sharp tug could pop the band and uncoil it all and clear the snag. This "cunning plan" wasn't so cunning on the bottom pitch of GG Dihedral as I used a very flimsy thin band. My second wanted to ascend out first with me taking the tackle bag and deal with all ropes etc. As he got to/past the first rebelay of the ascent out of the corner of my eye I saw the rope bundle which was about 1.5m off the floor, drop to the floor. We were out of communication (plus I couldn't see much) and I didn't know if he was stripping out the rebelay or what was happening and why the rope had dropped. I trusted him so I just had to jug up the rope with a slight paranoid doubt in the back of my mind of what I was jugging up. He is entirely trustworthy and it was just my paranoia - the rebelay was intact of course, I think the flimsy band had just dropped a couple of coils and hit the floor. Note to self: if you use an elastic band... always use one big enough.

Is there anywhere in Castleton area where someone could hire a caving oversuit? I know you can in the Dales but Google is coming up short when I search Derbyshire. I'm not sure my trusty screwfix boiler suit is going to be quite up to the job for wet caving!

 

[paul]

Is there anywhere in Castleton area where someone could hire a caving oversuit? I know you can in the Dales but Google is coming up short when I search Derbyshire. I'm not sure my trusty screwfix boiler suit is going to be quite up to the job for wet caving!

I'm pretty sure there isn't. Caving Supplies in Buxton is the nearest "bricks and mortar" caving shop and they only ever hired out lamps as far as I am aware and even then I'm not sure that they still do that.

 

[Pete K]

If you plan to stay at the TSG Chapel in Castleton, then we might be able to hire you a club suit if we have a suitable size one.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

If you plan to stay at the TSG Chapel in Castleton, then we might be able to hire you a club suit if we have a suitable size one.

Thanks for mentioning it, didn't know that was a possibility, reading up on this now on TSG website

 

[pwhole]

Well, we did the trip today and survived - Titan wasn't too wet, but Speedwell was pretty full after Whirlpool Passage, heading downstream - all the water was coming out of there today - it was winter levels past Pit Props. We didn't go up Whirlpool Passage as it would have been death on a stick, nor to Main Rising, but that's still not flowing - the water was ponded and very low and behind the Boulder Piles, so when it finally blows it's going to be spectacular, and probably bright orange! The Bung ladder was pretty scary, but once past there it was all fine.

Tom enjoyed himself immensely, so I'll let him add more when he gets home

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Thank you Alex and Phil

What an absolutely brilliant trip.

Titan chamber is spectacular, words don't do it justice. It was so impressive I actually wanted the rope to spin me around a bit on descent so I could get to see everything. Titan was dry (despite the weather)

The rest of the through trip was equally brilliant really really good

Possibly with the exception of colostomy where I have less enthusiasm but that's entirely due to my inept lack of technique or caving fitness where I may have set a record for slowest colostomy and both my elbows/forearms are covered in bruises. However if I had been fit and competent it wouldn't have been a problem. Both were amazingly patient with me especially Phil who got the short straw of going behind me.

The two sumps at cows' arse worms weren't a problem, the first one was completely dry, the second one water was low, if those had needed substantial bailing it would have been a much less pleasant trip, so I escaped water issues despite the rain

Bung ladder was "quite damp", I wouldn't have wanted any more water! But it seemed passable, although pretty damp (especially if someone had wanted to ascend)

Alex and Phil looked after me in every possible way short of carrying me in a sedan chair and gave me an absolutely fantastic trip. Huge thanks to them again.

 

[alastairgott]

Nah! I?m sure I have been slower through colostomy. Stopped to eat a soreen loaf halfway through a few years back. I hope phil didn?t give you the hard sell on the TSG journal which was out on the table

 

[pwhole]

I showed him a few sample pages, mainly of Longcliffe, so we'll see! But it was good to meet someone new, to be honest, and just dive straight into it - literally, in the case of Speedwell. The lack of pulsing at Whirlpool was very interesting, as it's been up and down like a yoyo all week - 50cm change every ten mins, roughly. But yesterday nothing - we stuck it out at the Bung for a while watching the level over the concrete lip, but it never changed, and it should have - I suspect the siphons are temporarily overwhelmed with Main Rising out of action.

Incidentally Tom, going the other way with a full bag of rope is really the best way to experience its joys, followed by a climb up Block Hall - next time? 

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I showed him a few sample pages, mainly of Longcliffe, so we'll see! But it was good to meet someone new, to be honest, and just dive straight into it - literally, in the case of Speedwell. The lack of pulsing at Whirlpool was very interesting, as it's been up and down like a yoyo all week - 50cm change every ten mins, roughly. But yesterday nothing - we stuck it out at the Bung for a while watching the level over the concrete lip, but it never changed, and it should have - I suspect the siphons are temporarily overwhelmed with Main Rising out of action.

Incidentally Tom, going the other way with a full bag of rope is really the best way to experience its joys, followed by a climb up Block Hall - next time? 

As long as I could "cheat" by leaving the rope bag at the bottom on a 10m end of rope and then pulling it up after. That way you could take a deep breath and rush the ladder, then pull the bag up after. Reckon that'd work in more water than we saw on Friday. Up Block hall sounds good, I've seen pics of white river and it looks spectacular