Our grotto does an award for climbing with knots (really, hitches). No mechanica devices are allowed. So. Keeping in mind we use stiff 11mm, what are your favorite climbing knots? Only one person in recent history has won the award and ive thought it would be fun to try for. Prussiks can be a bear to climb with but there are so manh other options (and systems such as mitchell, etc, are all fine, just as long as no mechanica ascenders). Im thinking a friction hitch in which a carabiner can be incorporated as a handle of sorts would make a nice mitchell, perhaps. I have resources localy to help of course but thought maybe someone there knows a cool hitch we dont usually mention or use. I will need to prussik a 300 meter single pitch at some point for the award. So it needs to be easy enough it doesnt get overly exhausting.
Favorite hitches for climbing
- Thread starter Amy
- Start date
SamT
Moderator
Bachmann knot and a Garda Hitch if you're allowed to use carabiners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKShjgeovXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK8LA6ZXr34
[edit] Not sure how well a Garda will work with a stiff rope, I guess you'd have to experiment , Oval, Round bar, locking krabs will be your friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKShjgeovXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK8LA6ZXr34
[edit] Not sure how well a Garda will work with a stiff rope, I guess you'd have to experiment , Oval, Round bar, locking krabs will be your friend.
Kenilworth
New member
A hitch from the arborist world, the Blake's hitch (it goes by other names too) is a fantastic choice for Texas knot-climbing. For best speed results, use what arborists do, a nice fat (7/16" +/-) braid on braid for the harness hitch, and a regular cord for the foot hitch.
A Blake's has the advantages of being effective with identically-sized rope (provided it is sufficiently supple), of utilizing a single strand of rope instead of a loop, having easily adjustable friction by adding or subtracting wraps, having a large bridge, and being easy to break. Gary Storrick claims that the tail can easily pull through... I have not seen any evidence of this.
I use a Blake's myself in my minimalist SRT kit, and have seen experienced users outpace other climbers who were using mechanical frog systems.
A Blake's has the advantages of being effective with identically-sized rope (provided it is sufficiently supple), of utilizing a single strand of rope instead of a loop, having easily adjustable friction by adding or subtracting wraps, having a large bridge, and being easy to break. Gary Storrick claims that the tail can easily pull through... I have not seen any evidence of this.
I use a Blake's myself in my minimalist SRT kit, and have seen experienced users outpace other climbers who were using mechanical frog systems.
Kenilworth
New member
SamT said:
Indeed.
There exists a video on Youtube, which I am too embarrassed to link, wherein I construct a climbing system with nothing more than 3' of 8mm rope. I used a Blake's hitch in that demonstration, as it seemed the best tool for the job.
That shown in the video is not, by the way, the "minimalist SRT kit" I referred to earlier. The one I carry consists of a loop of tape for a diaper harness, two bits of 6mm cord for hitches, and two carabiners, one to close the harness and the other for Munter hitch descent. It is slow, of course, but works reliably. Best of all it is smaller than my two fists and is ideal for long trips with short climbs.
Kenilworth
New member
No matter how good any of these suggestions are, there is no magic way to make hitch climbing "easy". There are very good reasons that mechanical ascenders have overtaken knots. A 980' climb with an efficient mechanical system would make many cavers unembarrassingly exhausted. You've done Golondrinas haven't you? Talk to some of the old guys who did it with prusiks and see how they felt. My point is, unless you're a world-class athlete, accept that you will be overly exhausted.
Kenilworth
New member
However, it seems that your "300 meter single pitch" claim is a great load of baloney. But what's 784.252' among friends, eh?
Also, I'd say that the roller that is part of the Mitchell would disqualify it from designation as a non-mechanical system.
Also, I'd say that the roller that is part of the Mitchell would disqualify it from designation as a non-mechanical system.
Sorry i didnt mean 300meters lol. Over 400ft so only about 130meters. Not sure why the 1 was lost and a 0 added.
Yes i love Blakes. It is my favorite! We use it all the time. Works great for emergency climbs (i spoke about it at the 2crabs and a sling at 2013 HE, my talk overlapped so i couldnt demo, you could avtually climb with only the rope in the pit assuming enoigh left on the bottom, blakes and footlock).
I cant possibly frog that high hence looking into creating more of a Mitchell system. Mechanical ascenders i can frog 100ft - was up to 200 before surgery - but frogging Surprise will never happen lol.
Yeah i already did horizontal 12 (12 horizonta caves over a mile in the state), and vertical 8 (5 100+ pits, 2 200+ pits, and 1 400+ pit). The classic 8 is same, just with knots. I think the only women in the grotto to ever have done those are probably Avis Moni and Merrium Cuddington. Ill probably enlist the Cuddingtons help to make the system in the end. And only one person has done it in recent years (like, sincr we got away from knots, lol).
The roller can be handmade, and not disqualify. The point is to be old school. The person who did it in recent history used their chest roller and made a hook for it to run through as there was debate as to using the pulley on the chest roller counting or not.
Yes i love Blakes. It is my favorite! We use it all the time. Works great for emergency climbs (i spoke about it at the 2crabs and a sling at 2013 HE, my talk overlapped so i couldnt demo, you could avtually climb with only the rope in the pit assuming enoigh left on the bottom, blakes and footlock).
I cant possibly frog that high hence looking into creating more of a Mitchell system. Mechanical ascenders i can frog 100ft - was up to 200 before surgery - but frogging Surprise will never happen lol.
Yeah i already did horizontal 12 (12 horizonta caves over a mile in the state), and vertical 8 (5 100+ pits, 2 200+ pits, and 1 400+ pit). The classic 8 is same, just with knots. I think the only women in the grotto to ever have done those are probably Avis Moni and Merrium Cuddington. Ill probably enlist the Cuddingtons help to make the system in the end. And only one person has done it in recent years (like, sincr we got away from knots, lol).
The roller can be handmade, and not disqualify. The point is to be old school. The person who did it in recent history used their chest roller and made a hook for it to run through as there was debate as to using the pulley on the chest roller counting or not.
Kenilworth
New member
Yes, theoretically, but not with the rope most commonly used in the US.
The 400' (122m) portion of the HG vertical award process does not require a single pitch, but any cave with 400' of pitches. Depending on your on-rope stamina and the nature of the caves, getting it over with in one pitch may or may not be preferable.
Kenilworth said:
There are two caves that are open that work for the award. Because at least one has to be over 200ft for the 400ft. A wet crappy multidrop is not one to do on knots
surprise is definitely the way to go. Im very well aware od the requirments, i am asking for knot ideas in this thread, not for people to try and dissuade me or question why. I just think it wouod be fun to try and i want to give myself the biggest chance tk succede.I appreciate the hitch ideas folks!
Kenilworth
New member
Good deal, I know very little about AL caves and guessed that there could be other candidates that may allow opportunity for rest between pitches.
Good climbing
Good climbing
Kenilworth
New member
Not so. http://caves.org/grotto/huntsville/docs/Classic8.pdf
My apologies, finished now.
I hope you succeed. If I lived where you do this is the sort of thing I would be interested in. As it is, I was universally ridiculed for climbing with knots on a survey trip earlier this month. More than just for practical reasons, I like to use "obsolete" methods from time to time as a sort of nod to cavers who operated in a time when cavers had to be tough. The Classic 8 award is much more meaningful as a tie to the past than it is as a personal accomplishment.
