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Fibreglass

Christian_Chourot

New member
Does anyone have any experience of working with fibreglass? Never done anything with it before and I need to know a few things before I embark on a project - don't know where to start looking and haven't had much success with google.
 

Slug

Member
Try taking a look here,http://www.netcomposites.com/ there's a wealth of information, though itdoes depend on what exactly You are doing, and what types of glass You wish to use.
 

Brains

Well-known member
It can be very messy, the fumes will intoxicate you, and the glass will probably irritate your skin. The safety precautions are well worth obeying, and beware until set it is highly inflammable, once set it just burns very well.
Relatively easy to use but be methodical and careful. If making something like a canoe, preparation of the mould surface will take longer than the resining, rush this at your peril!
Good luck
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
As Brains intimated, caneoists often use this stuff routinely. If you contact your local canoe club they can probably help (or point you at someone else who can).
 

graham

New member
Pitlamp said:
As Brains intimated, caneoists often use this stuff routinely. If you contact your local canoe club they can probably help (or point you at someone else who can).
Aye, ask Ruth if any of them use it routinely.
 

ChrisB

Active member
I'm a canoeist / kayaker and have used fibreglass and other fibre reinforced composites quite a lot, but I'm not sure what you want to know - if you have any specific questions please either post or PM them to me and I'll try to help.

I wrote an article on mending kayaks which might be useful; more info is available on the site where the article is posted but you'll need to pick out the fibreglass related links from the rest.

Chris
 

Christian_Chourot

New member
Ok guys, now you get the context now that I know I'm not wasting my time asking on here:

I'm trying to build an archimedes screw for placement in a cave which is a right b*stard to do as far as I can see. I think fibreglass over a wooden frame could be the way to go to solve problems of rotting. waterproofing etc. It'd need to be around 3m in length and the diameter is yet to be determined as I can't face the maths yet to work out what is required to move the volume of water!

If anyone has any other ideas about construction, I'd be most interested to hear them. I basically don't have any idea how much fibreglass costs to work with on this scale.
 

nickwilliams

Well-known member
Archimedes screw pumps are commonly used in powder conveyors and sewage treatment works. Have you considered trying to scrounge what you need rather than trying to make it?

Nick.
 

Ship-badger

Member
Would this Archimedes screw be for shifting mud? If it is, I think that it would wear away fibreglass quite quickly.

A chap in our Club works for a company that makes fibreglass tubes. These things, commonly called "filament wound tubes" come in all diameters, up to 4m in length. If you are after a tube, we might be able to help you.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
You can make a screw by winding flexible piping around a central pole. You don't need to mould anything really, and the screw is self-contained - it won't need a containing cylinder. Try a prototype using, say, a hosepipe wound around a broom handle. I suppose the higher the required capacity the more of a challenge it would be to get an appropriate kind of large diameter piping.
 

Christian_Chourot

New member
martin s said:

Seen that one already thanks, that's the way I was going to make the inner part to mould fibreglass on to as I don't think plywood alone would last long in a cave. Anyone near Mendip got a job lot going begging?

Ship-badger said:
Would this Archimedes screw be for shifting mud? If it is, I think that it would wear away fibreglass quite quickly.

Nope. Tis an attempt to improve efficiency of sump bailing so it would be just water. Fed up of knackering my back! A decent bore screw should be way better than buckets and require far fewer people.

Ship-badger said:
A chap in our Club works for a company that makes fibreglass tubes. These things, commonly called "filament wound tubes" come in all diameters, up to 4m in length. If you are after a tube, we might be able to help you.

That could potentially be useful. Hollow tubes or otherwise? Any idea what diameter?

Peter Burgess said:
You can make a screw by winding flexible piping around a central pole. You don't need to mould anything really, and the screw is self-contained - it won't need a containing cylinder. Try a prototype using, say, a hosepipe wound around a broom handle. I suppose the higher the required capacity the more of a challenge it would be to get an appropriate kind of large diameter piping.

Are you spying on me? I tried with a mop and hoover hose a while ago but to get an adequate rate I found I'd need an unfeasibly large number of tubes in parallel, they're fairly hard to join without leaks and I think it would fall apart under my intended use, plus there's the potential for a lot of wasted capacity as you get larger diameter tubes and they're hard to get hold of. Was my method of choice at first. I reckon that hosepipe of a decent diameter would make the whole thing weigh a ton.

nickwilliams said:
Archimedes screw pumps are commonly used in powder conveyors and sewage treatment works. Have you considered trying to scrounge what you need rather than trying to make it?
Nick.

No. Very good point, I'll get scrounging. Anyone got any contacts? :)
 

Wolfart

New member
Aprenticed trained as a boatbuilder down on the south coast did a fair bit of laminating
Its messy ,Smelly, make sure you work in good ventilation, Don't wear nylon shirts or trousers they will drive you potty.
Styrene fumes gets into your pores and you smell for day's :cry:
Other than that its good stuff for repairs.
 

ChrisB

Active member
The way I'd build one is based on the link from martin s. I'm assuming you've found links on basic working environment and methods, and where to get the materials.

First make a mould (which will require an initial mould). Instructions are for the real thing but I suggest you practice with small bits to get the techniques first.

1. Start with a flat sheet of anything smooth, at least the diameter of the screw - glass would be OK. Polish well (6 coats of mould wax). If unsure of polish, apply release agent as well, but the finish won't be as good and may take more work later. Coat with gelcoat, leave until set but tacky, then coat with laminating resin, lay 2 layers of chopped strand into the resin and brush or roll until saturated. (Always best to put the resin down first and being it through the glass, rather than putting the glass down dry - avoids trapped air).

2. About 24hrs after, pull carefully away from the flat sheet and trim to make a disc of the screw diameter. When the resin's fairly new you can cut it with a sharp knife, when it's older it will require a saw. Get the diameter as accurate as you can as this is the pattern for the whole screw (see below for why the mould edge has to be accurate). Also cut out the inner diameter. The smooth face will become the face of the mould so keep it smooth.

3. Cut the disc down one radius and pull out of plane into the screw shape. Make a timber frame to hold it there. Glue the frame to the back of the distorted disc and then laminate strips of chopped matt over it. If the disc edges are too floppy, laminate more glass onto the back. This is the mould.

4. If there are any air bubbles or other blemishes on the face of the mould, fill with resin (car body filler is easier but may need to be re-done later) sand flush and use finer sandpaper to get really smooth. Ideally it will have come off the original glass or whatever so smooth that it doesn't need anything except polish (which is why it's best not to use release agent if you can avoid it). Polish the mould up, 6 coats of wax. Needs to be a week old before polishing.

Now you have a mould, use that the same way to make screw sections. Since the mould was pre-curved, the screw sections should all have the same curve.

5. As before, apply gelcoat, allow to set and then apply resin and chopped strand - maybe need 4 layers? A key trick now - this is why the mould edge has to be right. When the resin has set to the consistency of hard cheese, get a stanley knife and cut round the edges of the mould. Done at this stage, you can get a good clean edge with very little work. If you wait, it will be dusty and horrible work. Re-polish the mould every 5 uses of it if you have trouble releasing.

6. If you haven't sourced the centre shaft, you may need to make one. Find a suitable plastic pipe and use it as a permanent former - just apply resin and chopped mat. Gelcoat is only needed if you want to get it off the mould, but leave the pipe in and it's not a problem.

7. Fit the screw sections to the centre. I've used Arapdite Rapid as a "tack weld" for such. Then laminate strips of chopped mat or possibly woven tape to hold them on and (on the back face) to cover the joints.

8. Finished. Realise that it's taken a lot of work and wish you hadn't started.

Good luck!


 

matty007d

New member
Hey Chris.
I work at a company using resin and fibreglass. We produce a a UV curing Sheet Moulding Compound. Typically a roll 60 or 100 cm wide, 10 metres long and 1.5mm thick. Made on a machine being fed with a resin mix from a hopper, pulling fibreglass and then chopping it, through a series of rollers, and the finished product is a flat sheet of mouldable resin/fibreglass between two films, that you can place in sunlight, thereby kicking off the reaction to polymerise it and turn it rock hard.
For what you would like to do, Fibaroll (its tradename) would drastically reduce the messy, sticky and itchy business of dealing with neat resins and fibreglass. However, being a flat sheet rolled up, a one piece job wouldn't really be possible, but i reckon a few interlocking flaps around a mould, and sealed with gel (the UV curing resin matrix, but without any fibreglass in it) could be fashioned to do the job.
  This stuff is incredibly versatile. Lots of scrap material gets thrown, it having superficial air trails in it, and if you would like to have a look at some and try it out, by all means let me know and i'll try and get some to you.
As below...
 

Christian_Chourot

New member
Wow, thanks guys! (y)

Is Fibaroll adherent to itself when you remove it from the backing sheets? If not, how easy is it to laminate it, (I guess using a UV curing resin)?

I can see an easy construction method if it's possible, by wrapping long thinish strips of it (1.5cm ish wide) in spirals around a central axis and then building up into thicker spirals to form a sizable screw thread which can then be smoothed with resin to fill any gaps and waterproof it. Marking out the central pole looks pretty easy, just by marking it into squares like in this picture:

VitScrew.gif
 
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