I was referring to it's size....
bubba
Administrator
jasonbirder said:
Why is this strange? The papers will print a story even if they don't have the full facts. It's not a competition to see who can publish a report first. I'm more concerned that the correct facts are reported at the right time. Are you sure the Buxton Advertiser printed the correct details of the incident? If so, then good luck to them but as i say, it's not a competition and I will only unlock that topic when i'm happy that it is ok to do so. What's the rush anyway?
Yes it is important that we learn from mistakes that have been made and when the appropriate time has come we can do that.
The Giants topic was locked because there may have been police action arising from the incident. As far as I know this is now not the case so it might well be time to unlock that topic. When SamT logs on next he will probably make the call because he's got more idea about what is happening in that area than i or the other mods have.
bubba
Administrator
For the record, I've just read the Buxton Advertiser account of the accident and it doesn't give the full story regarding what went wrong anyway.
cap n chris
Well-known member
The forum stats show that yesterday more people joined the forum in one day than any other day in the previous four months. Presume away.
Unsurprisingly yesterday also saw the greatest number of people logged on all month.
Unsurprisingly yesterday also saw the greatest number of people logged on all month.
D
Dep
Guest
cap 'n chris said:
This may have more to do with the holiday period than trolls with morbid curiosity.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Nope. Generally similar level day to day during Christmas hols then big spike yesterday - an almost 60% increase in numbers on one day.
D
Dep
Guest
OK, I stand corrected.
What an odd world we live in.
What an odd world we live in.
paul
Moderator
Sure, after any accident or tragedy there should be discussion and consideration to see what lessons may be learned and hopefully prevent the tragedy happening again.
BUT according to the link to the BBC News website originally posted on UKCaving.com @ 0741 on Friday, "Their bodies were found at about 0320 GMT on Friday, a police spokesman said."
This is only 4 hours later and already a discussion about which cave was it or wasn't it had started. Surely any worthwhile facts about the incident were not yet available this soon. There's nothing worse than "Chinese whispers" when there has been a tragedy. Even during a "shout" and for some time afterwards there can be confusion amongst those who were there as to what happened or didn't happen.
The moderators were right to ask participants to hold off on discussions until they felt the facts were known.
I'm sure it is perfectly reasonable that we all just have a bit of patience and take in the news as reported, maybe express our condolences and then wait until the full story emerges before all the speculation and discussion as to what went wrong begins.
BUT according to the link to the BBC News website originally posted on UKCaving.com @ 0741 on Friday, "Their bodies were found at about 0320 GMT on Friday, a police spokesman said."
This is only 4 hours later and already a discussion about which cave was it or wasn't it had started. Surely any worthwhile facts about the incident were not yet available this soon. There's nothing worse than "Chinese whispers" when there has been a tragedy. Even during a "shout" and for some time afterwards there can be confusion amongst those who were there as to what happened or didn't happen.
The moderators were right to ask participants to hold off on discussions until they felt the facts were known.
I'm sure it is perfectly reasonable that we all just have a bit of patience and take in the news as reported, maybe express our condolences and then wait until the full story emerges before all the speculation and discussion as to what went wrong begins.
graham
New member
There are a number of issues at work here. I concede that we do not wish to be adding to ill-informed reporting by the tabloid (or other) press, but on the other hand if this site is to be regarded, as I believe it is and should be, as a community of cavers then it is only right and proper that we come here to express our concern and to learn what has happened and to take note for the future. These are legitimate uses of the forum, I believe.
That being the case then surely both issues outlined above can be dealt with by making a section of the board that is available to members only - possibly even to members with a minimum post count only - where such matters can be discussed by cavers for the benefit of cavers and their families without coming under the glare of media intrusion. I believe that it is possible to set board software this way.
That being the case then surely both issues outlined above can be dealt with by making a section of the board that is available to members only - possibly even to members with a minimum post count only - where such matters can be discussed by cavers for the benefit of cavers and their families without coming under the glare of media intrusion. I believe that it is possible to set board software this way.
bubba
Administrator
Having sections of the forum that are only available after a certain post count just encourages people to up their post count by posting unneccessarily because they will feel that they will be missing out on something.
I'm sure we can all wait a day or two until the relatives have been contacted before we start discussing the tragedy, it's not that much to ask is it?
I'm sure we can all wait a day or two until the relatives have been contacted before we start discussing the tragedy, it's not that much to ask is it?
kay
Well-known member
I have come round to acceptance of locking topics in the early days. But what would be really helpful is if the full police/cave rescue press release could be published on here. I would expect ukc to have the most authoritative voice in publication of facts about an incident - the place you would come to to unscramble the confusion in the newspaper and tv coverage.
cap n chris
Well-known member
kay said:
I wouldn't, unless this forum is funded by the Home Office.
M
MSD
Guest
What about having an actively moderated section for this kind of happening? i.e. one where every post must be approved by a moderator before being made public.
I think the quality of this debate more than justifies me raising the question in the first place. Thanks to everybody who has contributed!
Mark
I think the quality of this debate more than justifies me raising the question in the first place. Thanks to everybody who has contributed!
Mark
bubba
Administrator
I guess that's possible but it relies on the mods being online. I'm not sure why there is an urgent need for discussion anyway. The real facts of these incidents rarely come out immediately unless a forum member was on the actual trip. At the moment i suspect everyone reading this is as much in the dark as to what happened as somebody reading the big news sites. Neither the CRO nor the North Yorkshire Police have published any information on their websites yet and the identities of the victims have not yet been made public. So even if the topic was open, I reckon all that would be posted would be messages of condolence and speculation.MSD said:
