Gaping Gill..'winch without a winch' meet 2021

[andrewmcleod]

Just start a new thread. The craven aren't claiming exclusive access to the caves, just asking those not insured to not use their ropes.

I rather suspect if you rigged over/beside the CPC's ropes, a shit-fit would be thrown. They may not be claiming exclusive access, but it is in effect, exactly that.

I think most people would just think you were being weird and purposefully unhelpful unless you had good reason. If your reason was 'I don't have insurance' then I don't think anyone could or would complain.

 

[langcliffe]

. Does CNCC warning for Christmas Pot still apply? https://cncc.org.uk/cave/christmas-pot

I haven't been down since January of last year (albeit 3 years after the warning was issued), and we didn't notice anything unduly amiss. Care is always required on the entrance pitch, though.

 

[NewStuff]

think most people would just think you were being weird and purposefully unhelpful unless you had good reason. If your reason was 'I don't have insurance' then I don't think anyone could or would complain.

I've got no intention of going anywhere near GG for the forseeable future, irrespective of winch meet dates. I personally I don't have an issue with it unless people are refusing you access unless your produce a green/red card.

I was merely saying that while it may not be claimed as exclusive access, it is in effect exclusive for those weeks of the year.

 

[Pitlamp]

. . . but everyone who has actually been up there seems to be having a great time.

I'm sure if you had wanted to join the party you'd have been made very welcome.

Sometimes it's better just to get on with the caving and not get too hung up with the bolotics.

I wasn't going to mention what follows on here but you've prompted me. I go back a long way with the CPC and with other clubs and mates in the caving community. When I first started there was a lot of rivalry, not all of which was entirely in good humour. I called in there yesterday whilst out for a run on the hill and got yapping with old friends. Whilst I was there various cavers from a variety of clubs called in before going underground, or came back from a good trip and signed out. Everything was very friendly and it was all about cavers having a good time.

It struck me just how far we've come since those early days, where you were almost expected to regard "rival" caving clubs as enemies. I think caving is in a very good place nowadays.

 

[mikem]

Some people want to make it more bolitical than it actually is

 

[NewStuff]

Some people want to make it more bolitical than it actually is

Not sure what you think is political (or bollocks, that wasn't a typo) on my behalf, so I'm assuming you're making reference to yourself? As said, I'm just pointing something out, I have no iron's in this fire.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I have a red card, you know what kind of things the BCA do with my ?10? Squander it on on things like legal challenges to CROW to fight for access for all of us cavers and mine explorers. That's the kind of people you're dealing with!  Yeah newstuff you fight them!!

 

[Russell Myers]

Nicely put Pitlamp.

 

[Ian Ball]

I remember going to the winch meet when there was a winch and we were heading in through Stream. We met a pair of Romanian cavers with zero English rigging over the CPC ropes, no one was bothered, other than a little disappointed I couldn't tell them they needn't bother as the CPC ropes were in for a few days more.

 

[MJenkinson]

I'm sure if you had wanted to join the party you'd have been made very welcome.

------------------------

It struck me just how far we've come since those early days, where you were almost expected to regard "rival" caving clubs as enemies. I think caving is in a very good place nowadays.

I had heard a song proclaiming the absence of a father figure in the lives of Craven Pothole Club members, but the last time they did this and me and a mate paid a visit, we were given a very warm welcome. Unfortunately I am not sure I will get to visit this time but I am sure they will be just as friendly this time - thanks to the CPC for doing this it's greatly appreciated, and as Pitlamp alludes - it helps cavers just get on with caving.

 

[NewStuff]

I have a red card, you know what kind of things the BCA do with my ?10? Squander it on on things like legal challenges to CROW to fight for access for all of us cavers and mine explorers. That's the kind of people you're dealing with!  Yeah newstuff you fight them!!

You're obviously new here...
I'm not fighting the BCA. Quite the opposite. May want to go have a delve into my post history.

 

[Ian Ball]

Newstuff that made me laugh 

All this talk of rigged entrances and the like is making me keen to go caving!

 

[Badlad]

Guys

The modern CPC are a very friendly bunch I have no doubt and have moved on from the days of the song quoted above - as we all hopefully have.  So although CPC clearly stated in their OP a requirement to have insurance in order to cave with them, other members since then have suggested if you just go up there you'll find a more 'progressive' attitude.  That's just great.

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not there are subtle politics involved here which relate to freedoms of access for all.  CPC (and BPC for that matter) are fairly self centered when it comes to dealing with the estate as their big fund raiser, the winch meet, is reliant on a good business relationship with the estate.  It is not surprising that they are willing to agree to conditions which allow them to achieve this going forward. 

The rather unfortunate side effect of this is that it encourages the representatives of the estate seek assurances that all cavers are covered by insurance.  This might not be an issue for those in clubs who do have the BCA insurance but it is an issue if you happen to represent all cavers as CNCC do.  If you are in the club system it is not always easy to see that many others do not cave this way or wish to and restrictions like we had in the past are not good for the future of our sport.

Someone who is involved in 'politics' will have to spend a lot of time trying to sort this out in order that we don't take a step backwards in Dales caving.  So it is not the trivial issue that some suggest it is. 

 

[Pitlamp]

But I thought there was no requirement to be in a club to have BCA insurance. 

We're very fortunate to have the option of such insurance, so cheaply. I've never understood why it's such an issue for some cavers. But I'll be the first to admit I know far, far less about this than Badlad though. If this chat is to develop any further on this subject, could I suggest it goes into a separate topic?

 

[HardenClimber3]

Thursday,
After a misty start the sun has come out.
Our plan at the moment is to take Rat Hole out later on Friday (weekend weather seems a bit unstable).
Dihedral will not be accessible from 11am on Sunday (new hangers etc).
Other entrances will be in until Sunday...updates to follow.

With limited connectivity etc I'm restricting my updates to those relating to the caving. We are taking note of the other comments and will respond. We want to make cavers welcome up h?e  and enjoy the caves.

Tea and gas stocks are good!

 

[Greybeard]

Had a thoroughly enjoyable trip yesterday and found the surface crew very welcoming. Many thanks for all the hard work put in.

 

[HardenClimber3]

We've had a good week up at Fell Beck. Starting to derig today, so no promises on any access on Sunday (Dihedral before /10am).
Tea is still available!  The rain has just arrived (11.30) and there was a fair bit last night.

 

[AndyP]

Morning !

Hoping to get up there today by 12.00hrs to do Flood / Bar
Do you envisage you?d still have anything rigged by then ?  :-\

 

[HardenClimber3]

It is a glorious morning up on Ingleborough  today - Sunday- but we are well on with derigging and I can't promise anything will be in after mid morning. (Dihedral before 10am). The weather has wrong footed us!
Sorry if anyone is dissapoined!