Gentlewoman's Shaft

[Speleokitty1]

Hi Tripod

I went into the level a few metres downstream of Long Tor Grotto (an interesting traverse along the gabions) during the 1980's. There is a collapse after a few meters (below the A6)

 

[History Trog]

This riverside level entered by Speleokitty is on Newthole Vein. The extract from my book is as follows:

A riverside opening on Newthole Vein was dug to a collapse under the A6 road in 1960.  It was believed to be a sough but more likely linked through to a higher level accessible from a concealed opening in the wall off the pavement by the south side of a house (Beech Hurst, No 228 Dale Road).

This concealed level was surveyed by myself and later John Barnatt ? see Mining History 2006. It may have a hidden horizontal continuation beneath the rising rubble floor.

About the entrance in Lovers Walks below the large tree, as I stated this description is from c.1920 and I doubt if such a tree would still be standing. The course of the Moletrap Veins is visible in the fields above and can be followed down onto the top of the steep slope.
The sough on Jackdaw Vein has its tail as a bolt in the riverbank (with a trickle of thermal water issuing) just where the railings end across from the north end of the Pavilion but it is submerged when the river is high. The only working on Jackdaw Vein was apparently right at the north end of Lovers Walks but I have been unable to find it ? the ground is very difficult there. The barmasters plans give a reasonable layout of these veins.

I will see if I can go up for a walk round on Wednesday as there is something that ought to be looked at. It might snow at the weekend tho?.

 

[bograt]

Both the lower end of Devonshire and the upper end of Long Tor Grot-hole are areas of great potential interest...

I recall lower Devonshire being a series of sandy, gravelly crawls past partially filled solution cavities opening out into a collapsed stope which can be passed by a squeeze/duck to a continuation ending in a flooded stope/sump.

This water filled passage is way above river level and suggests a drainage blockage and I surmise this will be somewhere to the north of Temple Mine, on a similar horizon, somewhere in the location of Bodens Quarry Cave, a feature now lost but recorded in 1878.

 

[Scud]

A 3D Survex model of all these mines would be good to show the relationship between them all. I know we have surveys of most of these mines but do we have the actual survey data.

It would be good if somebody would put together this  3D model of the Derwent South (Matlock) Catchment area unless somebody is doing one already.

 

[Brains]

This riverside level entered by Speleokitty is on Newthole Vein. The extract from my book is as follows:

A riverside opening on Newthole Vein was dug to a collapse under the A6 road in 1960.  It was believed to be a sough but more likely linked through to a higher level accessible from a concealed opening in the wall off the pavement by the south side of a house (Beech Hurst, No 228 Dale Road).

This concealed level was surveyed by myself and later John Barnatt ? see Mining History 2006. It may have a hidden horizontal continuation beneath the rising rubble floor.

About the entrance in Lovers Walks below the large tree, as I stated this description is from c.1920 and I doubt if such a tree would still be standing. The course of the Moletrap Veins is visible in the fields above and can be followed down onto the top of the steep slope.
The sough on Jackdaw Vein has its tail as a bolt in the riverbank (with a trickle of thermal water issuing) just where the railings end across from the north end of the Pavilion but it is submerged when the river is high. The only working on Jackdaw Vein was apparently right at the north end of Lovers Walks but I have been unable to find it ? the ground is very difficult there. The barmasters plans give a reasonable layout of these veins.

I will see if I can go up for a walk round on Wednesday as there is something that ought to be looked at. It might snow at the weekend tho?.

is the book still available / on line somewhere, or is it just a collectors item the rest of cant read now? What others references are useful for this area?
Thanks

 

[Tripod]

As teenagers we assumed that the flooded stope was where the workings reached and went under the river but of course this is not the case - it is some distance from the river and higher. Blind too - I was there when it was dived. The location in relation to surface features, identified and suspected is known precisely but is probably not wise to say more on a pubic forum. However, someone here must have information on the depth from the surface and the height above sough and lower workings. And as for a 3D model - yes please!

 

[AR]

is the book still available / on line somewhere, or is it just a collectors item the rest of cant read now? What others references are useful for this area?

The book's not yet out - PDMHS will be publishing it in due course but Roger keeps finding new stuff to go in it! His earlier book on the mines and caverns of Matlock Bath is long out of print but Mike Moore had a copy last time I looked, plus there are various articles from the PDMHS bulletin available on our website. There's also Vol.3 of Jim's Book....

 

[AR]

A 3D Survex model of all these mines would be good to show the relationship between them all. I know we have surveys of most of these mines but do we have the actual survey data.

It would be good if somebody would put together this  3D model of the Derwent South (Matlock) Catchment area unless somebody is doing one already.

John Barnatt has data for Devonshire, Long Tor Top, and Wapping/Cumberland. Roger Flindall may still have the data for Masson and Hopping/Tear Breeches, Paul Deakin also resurveyed Masson AFAIK.I believe Long Tor Grotto remains unsurveyed, but then who wants to stand around in the entrance passage for any length of time? :ras: I assume Temple and Owlet Hole have been surveyed by PDMHS but I'm not sure whom by or where the original data would be.

 

[History Trog]

My book has not yet been published - still working on getting it out.
What has been recorded about Boden's Quarry location is just guesswork. Newspapers show that at the time of the bone discovery, John Boden was working Harveydale Quarry near the Boathouse. This fits with other bone discoveries nearby at Seven Rakes Mine and Long Tor.
Just sloping off to Matlock now.

 

[Scud]

A 3D Survex model of all these mines would be good to show the relationship between them all. I know we have surveys of most of these mines but do we have the actual survey data.

It would be good if somebody would put together this  3D model of the Derwent South (Matlock) Catchment area unless somebody is doing one already.

John Barnatt has data for Devonshire, Long Tor Top, and Wapping/Cumberland. Roger Flindall may still have the data for Masson and Hopping/Tear Breeches, Paul Deakin also resurveyed Masson AFAIK.I believe Long Tor Grotto remains unsurveyed, but then who wants to stand around in the entrance passage for any length of time? :ras: I assume Temple and Owlet Hole have been surveyed by PDMHS but I'm not sure whom by or where the original data would be.

It would be good if somebody could borrow or get a copy of the survey data off these surveyors then get it put into survex. It isn't a major job doing it, it only becomes major if you have to start resurveying systems. I can't volunteer to do this as i have enough projects on the ago but can offer advice if any caver local to Matlock wanted to start collating all the data that we have and at least get it into the right format.

I did it for Lathkill Dale several years ago, John Beck had the survey data and it took about a month to get the data into survex files then with the help of Graham, it was made into a 3D model of the area, this is stored on the cave survey data archive website now.

 

[Brains]

History Trog, AR, Roy Fellows etc... Anybody fancy a group fossick about next w/end (27 or 28 Feb) to look ponder share ideas and poke sticks at badgers? Might even find a sough 

 

[AR]

Possibly the Sunday morning for me but Saturday's the DCA AGM.

 

[Tripod]

Is pollution in "Long Tor Grot-hole" still a problem (it appears to be on reading this thread) and if so why? Fifty years on since my school friends went in there (and heaved!) and now in a time when pollution is much more of an issue what is happening? 

 

[AR]

I think some of the road drains empty into the level, but it doesn't drain freely into the Derwent any more which results in a festering black sludge in the level, not so bad on the way in but coming out it really stinks. When I last visited, I wore waders instead of wellies, and had a good paddle in the river on exit...