GPS

[SamT]

Now then - I'm a bit of a traditionalist, and have always thought that all these bods running around kinder with their little new fangled gadgets were all a bit poncey. and prehaps they are. You should still be able to use an OS 1:25000 and a compass. and prehaps you should.
Dont get me wrong - they have their place and I used one extensively in Alaska mapping a glacier.

But yesterday we decided to do some foreign caving and buzzed up to yorkshire for the day. We'd photocopied the map and description from Selected caves of Britain and placed inside waterproof wallet (as you do) . Given the weather - wet misty and low cloud, and the fact that I always over hear nightmares of finding these yorkshire caves up on the moors/limestone pavement - i suggested to JB that he bring along the GPS he's just borrowed.

So there we were, up in the mist - "Follow the path from the farm up the hill till a cairn and a track comes in from the left. " Yer right, which wall - which track - what cairn and hand drawn little sketch was as much use as a cock flavoured lollypop so out came the gps.

After a little fiddling about (JB hadn't used it much), we had a grid reference for our position and we knew the GR for the cave entrance. Off we trot (in a different direction to the one we would have followed) and within ten mins we were stood at the top. There was no way we would have found it using the guidebook alone.

Im a convert.

Alright - we didnt have our OS map which might have helped. But boy, "Take me to the cave entrance please" Okey dokey.
Especially those pesky yorkshire

GPS rocks and Ive got one a the top of my Xmas list.
8)

 

[traff]

GPS is top!
However a very low RAF Tornado blanked mine near the langdale pikes, i had to re-initialize it to make it work.

SamT have you ever tried to take a bearing on Kinder - it swings all over the place, wierd. I'm sure a geologist could give a good reason why.

 

[SamT]

cant say ive ever noticed that (but then I cant remember taking many bearings up there). The rock is gritstone, but i wonder if there is a high iron content (see pollution in P8 thread).

Gritstone shouldnt affect the compass though.

 

[Stu]

GPS is top!
However a very low RAF Tornado blanked mine near the langdale pikes, i had to re-initialize it to make it work.

SamT have you ever tried to take a bearing on Kinder - it swings all over the place, wierd. I'm sure a geologist could give a good reason why.

Having lived and worked in the area for years this is a new one on me (and everything my pocket book geology has ever taught me). Don't want to sound like a bloody know it all.... are you sure it's not the obvious?

Re: GPS. Great for telling you where you are but you still need good map interpretation so the thing doesn't send you over a cliff! Of course not saying you or JB would have done that!!!

 

[cucc Paul]

The new fancy uni gps we use when trawling shows you your position on a good old fasioned os map with all the features and such plots your route for you shows you where you have walked and where your going... its also accurate to 1m, uses a correction transmitter which improves its accuracy...

Its a bit big though... sort of 15" none flat screen monitor size...

 

[paul]

SamT have you ever tried to take a bearing on Kinder - it swings all over the place, wierd. I'm sure a geologist could give a good reason why.

I must have walked on every square inch on Kinder in the past 30 years and never experienced a problem affecting compasses!

I have had problems with directions/compasses where Kinder itself wasn't to blame:
1) In 1975 when starting the Pennine Way with a mate doing the navigation, we bumped into somedody while walking in a grough who was walking towards us. After a chat he pointed out we were heading the exact opposite direction, if we were heading for Crowden (which we were)... I took over from my mate after that.

2) A couple of years ago while checking on a bearing in misty weather I realised my compass had somehow got magnetised so that North pointed South! Luckily I was familiar enough with the terrain to realise this.

I am an ardent GPS fan, too but realise it is just another tool to help.

 

[cap n chris]

I greatly suspect user error but each* time I've been to Yorkshire with my caving buddy who owns a GPS I've managed to find the caves while he's wandered off into the yonder distance, gawping at the screen claiming "I think it's over this way a bit further..." etc.. (Mind you, I still want one! - `cos I reckon I'd be OK at using it).

* Apart from doing a White Scar trip.

 

[andymorgan]

I would use GPS if I could afford it. There have been several times when visiting lesser visited caves the area around them has been pretty overgrown. With GPS i would know exactly what bit of brambles to hack through, rather than getting myself cut to pieces going in the wrong direction and not even finding it!

 

[Ouan]

With GPS i would know exactly what bit of brambles to hack through, rather than getting myself cut to pieces going in the wrong direction and not even finding it!

Andy, this assumes the grid reference in the guidebook is correct...

 

[cap n chris]

this assumes the grid reference in the guidebook is correct...

:shock: WHAT! - you mean there are actually GUIDEBOOKS available to help me locate caves???

 

[graham]

this assumes the grid reference in the guidebook is correct...

:shock: WHAT! - you mean there are actually GUIDEBOOKS available to help me locate caves???

Sure, in proper parts of the world, like Mendip (& County Clare ). I hear there will soon be an up to date one for the Peak as well whereas all those yorky types seem to carry an internet ready PC with them all weekend.

 

[cap n chris]

in proper parts of the world, like Mendip

Handbags at dawn on the horizon?.... Graham, you should join Andy S's crusade to make chums with Derbyshire cavers (they've even got their own Agincourt style salute!).

 

[cucc Paul]

Useful tip most gps work on world datum when they come out the box... on most models you can change it to uk ordenance survey datum. this is waht our lovely os maps use and probably the majority of the guide books. This will affect the location the gps reads to you by a couple of hundred meters.

 

[traff]

Ok so you think i'm probably daft or i can't use a compass when a say that you can get dodgy readings on kinder but when it happened to me, i mentioned it to some mates. Not one but four ex military friends who know a thing or two about navigation confirmed it as common knowledge!

 

[bubba]

Never heard of it on Kinder, but will take a compass next time I'm up there. That could be anytime in the next decade

One place I have encountered that is on Fairfield in the Lakes.

 

[Mr Fell]

I am running Memory Map (Northern England - 1:50,000 & Yorkshire Dales - 1:25,000) on a PDA and although I have just started to use the software, I have to say it seems pretty good. On the 1:25,000 the positioing seems to be pretty much spot on.

Has anybody had any problems at all.The only problem I had was getting the GPS unit to link with the PDA - once it was set up right there has been no problem since.

 

[AndyF]

GPS is great for looking for French caves with weird Lambert co-ords when you can't understand the co-ordinate system or read the guide book...

Sometimes it allows you to even find them. We were 20m from an entrance once though, but a mere 2m from a 100m+ cliff edge..

They aren't that good in forests though.... can't see too well through heavy tree cover.

 

[Cave_Troll]

Some of the newer ones cope fine with trees.
One of the manufaturers at the recent Outdoors show was showing a unit that had a lock from within the NEC

 

[AndyF]

Some of the newer ones cope fine with trees.
One of the manufaturers at the recent Outdoors show was showing a unit that had a lock from within the NEC

I'd buy one of those...!

Anyone care to make a recommendation/condemnation..

 

[emgee]

Some of the newer ones cope fine with trees.
One of the manufaturers at the recent Outdoors show was showing a unit that had a lock from within the NEC

Read somewhere that you can now get a "GPS" that also includes an inertial navigation system so that you still get a position in tunnels. In theory it's possible though the IN system would have to be a hell of a lot smaller than they were the last time I played with one. If you can build an inertial navigator that small today and get reasonable accuracy you just stick it in your pocket and walk round the cave (or grovel or swim) and you've got a survey.