Great news for University caving. Leave the University!

[mudmonkey]

Hurrah for long-sighted and broad-minded Universities. Sheffield Uni has decided that it wants to get rid of its "high risk" clubs (no I don't mean rugby...) having spent too much money on suits and paperw**k.

So, looks like SUSS may be needing to change its name 'cos we're no longer a University registered club. Whether we can still effectively operate remains to be seen. It sounds like we'll be able to start up an "external club" which just happens to be closely related to SUSS, which the University will tell people exists, but it's pretty bl**dy rude not to tell us until about 2 weeks before Freshers Fair! Also looks like we may not (officially....) be allowed to recruit directly at the Fresher's Fair which is actually the biggest problem.

Anyone who feels the urge to explain to the Uni just how stupid they're being, feel free.

 

[tubby two]

Sounds like a very Athletic Union style thing to do! I assume no affiliation meand no money for tackle, transport etc too, which could be your biggest problem. Just be thankful youre a big club with lots of old folk still active.

Good luck!

tt.

 

[mudmonkey]

Well actually, we've been given very little money for the last few years.

The real differences are no insurance - but then we can get BCA which is much better cover anyway - and the fact we are likely not to have a table at freshers fair which potentially stuffs us for recruitment. However SUSS recruits mainly through word of mouth anyway and to be frank, being free from the University politics/interference machine will be a great relief in many ways. I'm just a little miffed at the way it's been done and how it reflects on the attitude of "powers that be" towards people who dare do unusual things. :roll:

 

[Brendan]

No affiliation means no Freshers fair, no notice board, no email account in the Uni.
They have been waiting to do this for a long time - soon it will only be the rugby, hockey and football clubs left. Obviously they are not high risk -no one ever gets injured.

 

[mudman]

Disgraceful and bloody stipid too.
Perhaps somebody needs to point out the real stats about just how dangerous these other sports really are compared to caving?

 

[rich]

To be fair, caving is more dangerous than most sports, at least as far as fatal accidents go. Descent did a story about it a while ago. Rugby players get lots of injuries but deaths are very rare.

Anyway, have you tried all of the following? (I'm assuming that it's actually the Students Union that have actually made the decision)

* Checked your Union's consitution to see if there are any restrictions they have to follow if they want to wind up a club
* Asked your union to give you a reason in writing for why they are closing the club -- this gives you a definite starting point to argue against
* Got together with teh other threatened clubs
* Proposed a motion in a Union GM (signed by the above), both against the policy and the manner in which it has been introduced
* Complained to the NUS (http://www.nusonline.co.uk) -- they'll probably take teh Union's side, but they might have guidelines about how students have to be consulted (2 weeks certainly seems unreasonable)
* Petitions, protests, posters, pieces in your local/student newspaper etc.



looks like SUSS may be needing to change its name
Screw em. Call yourselves what you like.

we may not (officially....) be allowed to recruit directly at the Fresher's Fair
Big stall just outside with a gigantic poster pointing out what muffs the Union are and asking people to join as a protest.

 

[sittingnev]

If I remeber rightly Manchester had a similar problem a while back, when the AU/SU wanted to withdraw funding for caving. It might be worth having a word with them to see if they can help.

 

[SamT]

I dont see why you should have to change your name, nor why you shouldn't have a stall at the freshers fair to recruit. - your all based at the uni.
Just because you dont get any cash/help from the Uni funds - dont mean you cant still be a uni entity surely.
You cant change your name purley on a historical basis. SUSS have been a prolific club over the years, with references in all sorts of litriture. particlularly surveys, who would you contact to find old surveys if suss no longer exists in the future

Still a shit not getting no help from the uni no more :evil:

 

[mudmonkey]

The thinking is that if we are a University club (even if unfunded), and then go and kill someone, mummy and daddy might sue U-Sport or the University. Of course I am not aware of any such cases (any lawyers willing to own up to being on here?) but such paranoia is the world society votes for.

We will try and argue for a stall, our equipment, our money etc. but there are no guarantees. Sport at Sheffield isn't run by the Union but by a private company wholly owned by the University. This apparently makes financial sense but makes them a whole lot less accountable for decisions like this. I actually feel quite sorry for the whole succession of sports officers who stand and then find out they can do nothing but take the flak for decisions they have little input into - though anyone who doesn't know that before they stand needs their head examining....

The name SUSS will go on - just the details may have to change slightly as I suspect that "Sheffield University" may be a trademark. "Sheffield Universities", on the other hand, may well not be

 

[rich]

We will try and argue for a stall, our equipment, our money etc. but there are no guarantees. Sport at Sheffield isn't run by the Union but by a private company wholly owned by the University. This apparently makes financial sense but makes them a whole lot less accountable for decisions like this.

You should at least be able to get a motion passed by the union condemning it, and the university ought to have procedures in place where you can make complaints.

 

[tubby two]

Yeah, there must be someone from manchester floating around on here.
As far a recruitment goes, walk round the stalls handing out fliers, we only get a one day stall at newcastle and do just that on the other days.
Insurance, as you say, is fine, just funding thats going to be a pain in the arse.

I think the main problem is that to the AU caving is just a minority sport thay dont know much about. Every year we get asked to have a student trained and quialfied with their CIC (they found that on the net somewhere), but then we get an all in insurance policy thats better by far that any offered by the caving bodies (up to 10m public liability) all for just £2.20 a year! Like i said, they just dont know much at all- sometimes a good thing sometimes bad.

tt.

 

[Andy Sparrow]

Perhaps this is a first opportunity for our new national body, BCA, to apply such pressure as it can in an attempt to change the university policy. Surely BCA would like to prove its worth? Especially now, in view of the gathering storm on subscriptions.... I suggest SUSS makes a formal request to BCA for support and let us all see what happens.

 

[hrock]

the BCA are involved and helping they realis the importance of uni caving as a meens of geting people in to the sport.

so they are helping

but the uni dont seem to kare about any one exept the press, the mojoraty and money.



henry

 

[mudmonkey]

Over the past week the position has adjusted somewhat. I think the powers that be forgot they are dealing with the sort of group that will cheerfully spend 30+ years hauling mud outof a hole in the ground....

Having firstly sent out a letter saying "not only can't you have any money, you can't even exist, hah!", they're now asking us for a written document showing that we are financially viable and safe even without the 50p/year they've so generously been giving us. Details of exactly what they need are not especially forthcoming but it is progress.....

This rapid semi-about-face has been brought about by pressure from all sides - students, old members, BCA. The canoe club talking to the Independent (who seemed interested....) may also have helped

So things look much better but my cynical side suspects they're only playing for time. We'll see.

 

[pisshead]

and also, as they hadn't actually officially closed us bfore Freshers' Fair, they couldn't stop us having a table

so we've got a healthy list of freshers to persuade underground! (roughly 85 new email addresses)

woo

 

[SamT]

Let me know when your out and we'll come along - freshers week is alway great for Giants, especially when the young ladies realise there aren't any changing rooms at Peakshill farm.

 

[sittingnev]

From what I now know about this all the union (U-sport) or whoever they may be are stopping you being affiliated as a University Sport.

Why not become a society?
Surely societies get some funding from the union?

University caving should be about an introduction to the World of caving.

If you are still wanting to do "big" things then set up an external caving club for the more experienced/Older members and charge higher mambership fees, and use the current one as an intro. In a similar vein to Leeds with LUSS and ULSA. (i think)

Huddersfield have survived being a society for years, although this has been reflected in our big achievements (Or lack of)
Although the fact that we have survived this long without too many problems is an achievement in itself.

 

[Limestone_Cowboy]

Well we here at Liverpool have been a society in our Union for many years. The AU wouldn't let us in. We get less money but also less hassle, this has sadly changed this year with our safety and risk assessment now being handled by the AU, more hassle, more forms, more people.

Being a society has not changed our ability to get involved in big projects, our members regularly go on the British expedition to Matienzo in Spain and various other digs in this country.

I hope you can get it all sorted and do some good caving though

 

[mudmonkey]

We'd love to be a society. But any society that does anything that looks roughly sports-flavoured gets shunted off to the sports people as the Union are afraid of anything more energetic than ballroom dancing....

Limestone cowboy - re. your sig - in this case it's more like a beautiful fact (caving is fun and relatively safe) being slain by an ugly hypothesis (more forms and less adventurous things = more safety)......

 

[ianball11]

Do anyone have any procedures for society members being under 18? I've been asked for a risk assesment of an u18 member, tying in with the fe colleges in the area.
Ian B.