Hampsfell/Grange-over-Sands
- Thread starter grahams
- Start date
I've no idea of the area, so may be wrong, but based on a quick nosey at the map...
Hampsfell is the high point of the area and looks like limestone - in other words no catchment/any rain falling seeps in to the ground which usually equates to no enter-able caves higher up. Usually in those circumstances the resurgence is the best point of entrance.
Hampsfell is the high point of the area and looks like limestone - in other words no catchment/any rain falling seeps in to the ground which usually equates to no enter-able caves higher up. Usually in those circumstances the resurgence is the best point of entrance.
That's right although we do have caves such as Dowkabottom and the Attermire Caves in similar situations. The northern edge of the dip is adjacent to volcanics where there maybe sinks but I haven't managed to get that far as yet. The best bet is probably the sea level resurgence at Grange which splurges out a lot of gin clear water even in dry weather.
andys
Well-known member
I have a copy of UIF if anyone wants something looking up, but the area is covered anyway in Northern Caves 3 where Morecambe Bay has a whole chapter to itself. Around Hampsfell, several sites are described: Great Wood Cave, Broca Hill Caves, Merlewood Cave (at the northeast end) and Allithwaite Cave, Kents Bank Cavern and Kirkhead Cave to the south. Nothing near the summit though.
I wouldn't know, never been so have no idea where it is located. The entrance, from what I've seen in photographs appears reasonable in size, I doubt there's anything of reasonable size on Hampsfell!Fulk said:
A bit like the Berger, then?
When I said high ground I was thinking along the lines of UK (particularly the Dales of which I'm more familiar). As grahams suggested, Dowkabottom and the Sleets Gill area - large catchment, barely any known caves on the high ground (Dowka itself is more mid-ground than high and is merely a lucky collapse), Sleets Gill is lower down and a flood resurgence. So as I suggested a rising, didn't say flood rising or old rising like the Peak Cavern example mentioned by Mark, which I should have done, but forgot, would probably be best.
The problem with known old/open/dry caves, like Attermire, is that they are sometimes fairly well choked and quite often of archaeological importance.
As I said, don't know the area and was basing my answer on a quick look at a map, I won't bother next time, more hassle than it's worth!
But of course, a dig or two may yield results, caves are, as they say, where you find them...
TheBitterEnd
Well-known member
As others have said there are some fragments of caves in the surrounding area but in the absence of streams, knowing where to look is the problem. I think a decent snow fall and one of those quad-rotor things with a camera is probably the way to go.
dunc said:I wouldn't know, never been so have no idea where it is located. The entrance, from what I've seen in photographs appears reasonable in size, I doubt there's anything of reasonable size on Hampsfell!Fulk said:
A bit like the Berger, then?
When I said high ground I was thinking along the lines of UK (particularly the Dales of which I'm more familiar). As grahams suggested, Dowkabottom and the Sleets Gill area - large catchment, barely any known caves on the high ground (Dowka itself is more mid-ground than high and is merely a lucky collapse), Sleets Gill is lower down and a flood resurgence. So as I suggested a rising, didn't say flood rising or old rising like the Peak Cavern example mentioned by Mark, which I should have done, but forgot, would probably be best.
The problem with known old/open/dry caves, like Attermire, is that they are sometimes fairly well choked and quite often of archaeological importance.
As I said, don't know the area and was basing my answer on a quick look at a map, I won't bother next time, more hassle than it's worth!
But of course, a dig or two may yield results, caves are, as they say, where you find them...
Dunc - as with all the other contributors to this thread, your comments are appreciated and are correct. I now have a few ideas about where to poke my nose and have a few sources of info to look up.
Having recently moved to the area, I'm struck by the incredible amount of White Stuff around here. Farleton, the Kent Valley, Silverdale, Whitbarrow, Hampsfell and the Furness Plateau are all composed of a good depth of limestone. Whilst I don't expect to find anything of any size thanks to the topology, I really enjoy the limestone scenery and have always liked to open up new areas so I'll enjoy sniffing around.
mrodoc
Well-known member
It is a lovely area. Probably nutured my interest in caving as my grandfather lived in Arnside and I spent many Easter Hols into my teens in the area. There is a phreatic remnant cave on Arnside Knott and a rather muddy tube I remember exploring near Levens Hall amonst over sites. There was also an archaelogical site at Doghole (?) if I recall.
TheBitterEnd
Well-known member
There are two Dog Holes in the area, both of which have archeological remains. One at Haverbrack (Storth) which is the one you probably remember and one on Warton Crag. Some more archeological work was done on the Haverbrack Dog Hole a few years ago and local cavers were involved.
Someone has had a bit of a dig in Arnside cave and it now has a reasonable sized hole in the floor not far in with a scaffold board over it to get to the end.
Just as an aside, a few years ago whilst out for a walk in the Haverbrack area I came across what seemed to me to be a pretty obvious fossil resurgence but was refused permission to dig it.
Much of the open access land in the area is protected as SSSI, Nature Reserves, etc. and the local Natural England office is not as comfortable with cavers and digging as the Dales area office is, I get the feeling that it is easier for them to kick such requests into the long grass.
Someone has had a bit of a dig in Arnside cave and it now has a reasonable sized hole in the floor not far in with a scaffold board over it to get to the end.
Just as an aside, a few years ago whilst out for a walk in the Haverbrack area I came across what seemed to me to be a pretty obvious fossil resurgence but was refused permission to dig it.
Much of the open access land in the area is protected as SSSI, Nature Reserves, etc. and the local Natural England office is not as comfortable with cavers and digging as the Dales area office is, I get the feeling that it is easier for them to kick such requests into the long grass.
As I said, don't know the area and was basing my answer on a quick look at a map, I won't bother next time, more hassle than it's worth!
Sorry, dunc, I wasn't trying to wind you up or piss you off, but to make the point that lack of obvious stream sinks down not mean lack of caves . . . though it makes them more difficult to find.
I get the impression that there is more limestone outside the 'main northern caving region' than within it, some of it, as has been pointed out above, quite thick, and I feel that there is potential for (a lot) more cave to be found there.
Ignore my grumpiness, it's something that comes too naturally to me at times!Fulk said:Sorry, dunc, I wasn't trying to wind you up or piss you off, but to make the point that lack of obvious stream sinks down not mean lack of caves . . . though it makes them more difficult to find.As I said, don't know the area and was basing my answer on a quick look at a map, I won't bother next time, more hassle than it's worth!
I didn't make it clear what I was getting at, which is lack of entrances higher up rather than no actual cave passage.. But yes finding and gaining entry is the tricky part. There have been advances made at the risings in the wider area if my memory of Descent articles serves me right.Yes, outside of the main region (main Dales area) there's plenty of cave out there (like the miles of northern Dales stream passages or hidden away in the Morecambe Bay area etc), the big problem is finding a way in!
And as for the South Lakes/Morecambe Bay area, as has been said, lovely area. Not so good for caving but some great surface features to investigate.
danthecavingman
Member
Where is the culverted resurgence? Does it run under the railway - in which case I've probably looked at it whilst at work, unbeknowingly.
Found this as well whilst googling:
http://openplaques.org/plaques/10995
Dan.
Found this as well whilst googling:
http://openplaques.org/plaques/10995
Dan.
danthecavingman said:
Yes, this resurgence runs under the railway a couple of hundred yards SW of the duck pond/gardens at GR 54.193231, -2.907661. On Google Earth, the water worn channel can be seen together with a secondary resurgence in the salt marsh. I haven't inspected the culvert as yet - waiting to see whether the marsh dries out a bit. But it seems that you probably know more about this location than I. It's possible that the resurgence is associated with Picklefoot Spring as they are not that far apart.
