Hampsfell/Grange-over-Sands

[peterk]

On the British Geological Survey web site you can view an interactive map of British geology http://bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeology/geologyOfBritain/viewer.html?src=topNav You can turn on borehole records and by clicking on a borehole view the records.  (Some records are misplaced on the map and some records are for springs/wells - I think the main st of Grange has three)
Getting to the point. There are a series of records relating to a 60's survey to put a road across the Kent estuary upstream of the railway viaduct. One borehole on the Arnside side hit carboniferous limestone at -100ft and continued in it for 30+ft.  In the middle of the estuary one borehole was ended in silt/gravel/boulders at -216ft  because a strong flow of fresh water prevented recovery of undisturbed samples.

 

[mrodoc]

Just as an aside, a few years ago whilst out for a walk in the Haverbrack area I came across what seemed to me to be a pretty obvious fossil resurgence but was refused permission to dig it.

Much of the open access land in the area is protected as SSSI, Nature Reserves, etc. and the local Natural England office is not as comfortable with cavers and digging as the Dales area office is, I get the feeling that it is easier for them to kick such requests into the long grass.

It seems to me that the less the authorities or landowners know about cavers and caving the less likely they are to grant permission. In Devon cavers have all sorts of problems and we have similar issues on the Quantocks although Les Williams is supposed to be sorting it out - hint (if he reads this).

 

[TheBitterEnd]

I quite agree, it certainly seems to be the case up here. I don't know too much about the ins and outs of Natural England but spreading "best practice" from the Dales to other regions would be good.

 

[Wormy]

I spent a week in Arnside recently and managed to hit up a few bits and bobs.  There is a cracking little guide to caves that have had human remains found in them which i found useful for the area:

http://capra.group.shef.ac.uk/1/nwest.html

probably hasnt got everything listed but i thought it was a good start.

 

[grahams]

Thanks for the replies. Wormy's link looks really interesting - plenty of reading material there.
Picklefoot Spring is the source of the 'culverted resurgence' water below Grange Prom. The resurgence itself is behind a locked door in the grounds of the ornamental gardens. I'm hoping to gain access in the near future. Elsewhere on Hampsfell, I've found nothing at all of speleological interest. To the north, the fell fizzles out into volcanics. I had hoped to find sinks in this area but there's nothing to be seen. Plenty to got at yet though.

 

[meanderthal]

Thanks for the replies. Wormy's link looks really interesting - plenty of reading material there.
Picklefoot Spring is the source of the 'culverted resurgence' water below Grange Prom. The resurgence itself is behind a locked door in the grounds of the ornamental gardens. I'm hoping to gain access in the near future. Elsewhere on Hampsfell, I've found nothing at all of speleological interest. To the north, the fell fizzles out into volcanics. I had hoped to find sinks in this area but there's nothing to be seen. Plenty to got at yet though.

Just curious, has anything come of this? I have spent several days wandering over Hampsfell for the same reason and found next to nothing other than the duck pond resurgence. Did you manage to gain access to it?

 

[Pitlamp]

Grahams and I corresponded off board about this. We agreed that when he'd had the opportunity to try and sort access he'd let me know if there was anything that could be dived. I guess he's not had chance to sort it yet.

 

[ChrH]

'Just curious, has anything come of this? I have spent several days wandering over Hampsfell for the same reason and found next to nothing other than the duck pond resurgence. Did you manage to gain access to it?'

Has nobody tried digging in the cave in Eggerslack Wood?

 

[oldboy]

Has anyone done any prospecting or digging in the Hampsfell area? There's a lot of limestone (up to 700 ft thick)  and a sizeable culverted sea-level resurgence below Grange prom but no known caves (as yet) other than a rock shelter of some archaeological interest.

Not done any digging on the fell but there are a number of smaller caves around the area, the nearest being Merlewood Cave just off its base
See RRCPC newsletter for article on caves in the area, I think it was in 2011.  http://www.rrcpc.org.uk/newsletters/NL_V48_N1_A2.htm

 

[ChrH]

The Cave I was referring to is 5 metres deep with an entrance 3 metres across and is in Eggerslack Wood on the edge of Hampsfell.

 

[TheBitterEnd]

Where abouts in Eggerslack Wood, do you have a grid ref or directions to it?

 

[graham]

I don't have my log book with me, here, & cannot recall the details exactly, but it is possible that ChrH is describing a site that is very interesting from an archaeological POV. If I'm wrong, I'll try to to clear up the confusion (possibly just mine) when I get back to Bristol.

But if I am right the site has yielded Mesolithic archaeology (I think) &  shouldn't be dug without consulting local archaeological experts.

One possibility is that this is Merlewood cave.

 

[ChrH]

Hi

This definitely isn't Merlewood Cave... Merlewood Cave is on the other side of Windermere Road.
I could give anyone the location if they would like or show them where it is, I also have photos.
I would not like to think I have encouraged anyone to dig up a site of archaeological interest by broadcasting the location on an open forum however.... what do you suggest? Not very Au fa with using forums!

 

[ChrH]

Ironically, I found your post about looking for caves on Hampsfell whilst looking for a grid ref for Merlewood Cave on the web a couple of weeks ago, I had long been aware but never visited it. However, I have now, so I'm quite certain this isn't Merlewood.

 

[TheBitterEnd]

You have a PM (personal message) - click on the "My Messages" link at the top of the page.

 

[graham]

As i said, I don't have access to all my files, here. I'll be back in touch in a couple of weeks, when I do.

 

[grahams]

Good to see a bit of interest in Hampsfell and surroundings whilst I've been away.

Here's my lack of progress update:

Picklefoot Spring
A lot of water has been issuing here of late. Whenever I go to Grange, I take a camera in the hope that the building housing the pump for the ornamental fountain and the source of the water will be open. So far, no luck. The gardeners no longer use the building as the gardening contract has been outsourced.

Hampsfell
I've had a poke around the small spring in Eggerslack Wood at GR 54.206612, -2.908453. This seems to be local drainage from the valley above, along a bedding plane. The water soaks away into the field adjacent to the Windermere road, across which it runs in very wet weather.
A Google Maps GR would be useful for Merlewood Cave please.

Whitbarrow
I had a look for Wakebarrow Cave a few weeks ago. Nightmare. The ground is without doubt the most difficult I have ever attempted to cover - dense brambles, bracken and small trees hiding limestone pavement. Anybody have a GR - I might go back.

 

[Fulk]

Hi Grahams, I thought that you might be amused by this entry from our caving log:

Saturday, 17?07?10, Wakebarrow Pot
As part of the new interest in Whitbarrow, Chris took M. and me to Wakebarrow Pot; this turned out to be quite an interesting experience. The cave is located in a wooded area, very overgrown ? not quite a trackless waste, but unlike any other cave entrance I?ve ever been to in Britain! The entrance is a kind of slot that drops through a narrow fissure to a tiny ?chamber?, from where a crawl leads to a pitch. Now, in this area of bare limestone there was a small stream flowing on the surface, sinking just upstream of the cave. This was after a few days rain following the drought. The bedding-plane crawl was flat-out, and partially obscured by washed-in debris that I had to shift to one side. There was also an area where there was foam on the roof (and floor). After few metres I reached the edge of a shaft, down which water ? coming in through the roof, and presumably the stream sinking on the surface ? was pouring. A descent of the shaft ? that evidently leads to a ?large? chamber ? would have been out of the question (even if we?d brought the ladders). Well, an enigmatic place, with potential. So we surfaced after no more than 10 min U/G.

And we've not been back since!

 

[peterk]

This document may be of interest http://nora.nerc.ac.uk/7302/1/IR06079.pdf "Geology of the area between Lindale and Witherslack"

Para 6.1.3.2 TUFA DEPOSITS and the related pictures and diagram interested me. If I understand it correctly there are tufa deposits at Whitbarrow that were formed within the glacial ice sheet by water from a cave on Whitbarrow and then deposited as linear features when the ice retreated. The cave is stated to be "The source of the tufa is a former cave lined with the older grey tufa and now filled with recent fine, buff tufa, lying in a vertical crag at an elevation of 90 m above sea level [4530 8465] (Plate 5). "  Any idea if there is a name for this cave - its about 100m NW from Whitbarrow Lodge. I'd love to see a LIDAR picture of this area

 

[TheBitterEnd]

Thanks for posting that, very interesting.

The "cave" that the tufa came from is a spring and water supply for Whitbarrow lodge. Up until last year the spring was visible on the LHS of the path but then flowed under the path and down the valley side. Last winter the spring was covered over with a paving slab so is no longer visible where it emerges from the bedding. The spring came out of a small opening, approx 12 to 18" square and I always resisted the urge to get in for a look because it was obviously a domestic water supply and because it would have needed work to get into it.