Heightec Prism descender

[TheGrave]

Anyone tried these for caving?

Rope access descender | PRISM device | UK Manufacturer

PRISM rope access descender, high specification multi-function for abseiling, ascending, lowering, hauling and rescue. Leading provider 25+ years

www.heightec.com

Are bobbins made out of steel? Are they user-replaceable?

 

[JoshW]

Looks like it’s got a built in anti panic function - like the ID - which from my experience is a right twat to deal with in caves

 

[ChrisB]

Are bobbins made out of steel?

The link says "stainless steel friction surfaces" which I assume means bobbins.

 

[LadyMud]

"Anyone tried these for caving?"
At that price (£150 + VAT), I'm sure the answer is NO

 

[Loki]

Hi they are stainless steel bobbins but are non replaceable.
The anti panic is a second brake that adds friction if you squeeze too hard, rather than the trip-out function on the I’d. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages. both will struggle with stiff muddy ropes.

 

[cap n chris]

If the functionality of it mimics the Kong Indy EVO (link below) then I imagine (as suggested above by JoshW) that it won't behave the way you wish. When Petzl ceased providing the multi-purpose tool, the old-style Stop, plus replacement parts, I looked at options, and tried the Kong descender; it works AOK on brand new dynamic rope but on caving rope doesn't work at all. Different body mass cavers on different ropes all resulted in being hung up as it locks and descent becomes impossible. It's an expensive wall adornment now. The new style Petzl Stop has been begrudgingly acquired, piece of shit that it is. I still hate it, and its lack of versatility. Petzl have sold cavers down the shitter, imo. Fernand would spit on the directors were he still alive, and he would have told all the moaning minnies that whined about finding pushing the handle in to STFU and do hand gym exercises until their limp wrists functioned properly.

Kong italy Indy Evo Plus Ascender | Trekkinn

Buy Kong italy Indy Evo Plus Ascender , Ascenders & descenders from Climbing equipment for only 116.99 £. Find outdoor deals in Trekkinn | Fast delivery

www.tradeinn.com

 

[langcliffe]

Fernand would ... have told all the moaning minnies that whined about finding pushing the handle in to STFU and do hand gym exercises until their limp wrists functioned properly.

All the hand gym exercises available wouldn't overcome the difficulties presented by my arthritic fingers, and I'm not convinced that from what I have heard of him, that Petzl would have been so rude or dogmatic. I use a Simple.

 

[cap n chris]

I feel pretty sure FP would at the very least have been irked that the new Petzl Stop no longer has functionality as a spanner for common types of maillon rapides, nor user serviceability while on exped(s). I am not fluent in Gallic vituperation but can imagine he might have been expressive about these things were he still alive. [Although it never ceases to amaze me that UK cavers generally have no idea whatsoever that a Petzl Stop has other uses. Underpinning knowledge has no underpin, nor knowledge, about it, apparently].

 

[andrewmcleod]

I suspect Mr. Petzl would have happily used a Simple, and he would no doubt have been very happy that the newest iteration from Petzl has been redesigned to use the same user-replaceable bobbins on top and bottom to reduce the amount of spare parts the expedition caver needs to bring.

Or maybe he would have gone the other way and used a Rig or similar if he liked gadgets and a genuinely multi-purpose device (that doesn't suck too hard when doing them).

You can't please all the people all the time; Petzl produce an excellent expedition-repairable robust descender with no bells and whistles, and they produce a fancier auto-braking descender that doesn't require maintenance (because it has long-lasting stainless bobbins) and also has a handle that isn't naff and leads to clutch-and-plummet accidents in newer cavers (who generally prefer the new handle anyway).

In any event, we get a lot more caving gear from Petzl than we 'deserve' as a market. The Simple and the Stop have no market at all outside caving AFAIK, and yet Petzl have continued to make and sell them. They must make far, far more money from climbing and the industrial side and yet one of the top world manufacturers of at-height gear still has a good range of caving gear due to their heritage. I think we do pretty well to be honest...

 

[Loki]

I feel pretty sure FP would at the very least have been irked that the new Petzl Stop no longer has functionality as a spanner for common types of maillon rapides, nor user serviceability while on exped(s). I am not fluent in Gallic vituperation but can imagine he might have been expressive about these things were he still alive. [Although it never ceases to amaze me that UK cavers generally have no idea whatsoever that a Petzl Stop has other uses. Underpinning knowledge has no underpin, nor knowledge, about it, apparently].

In 30 years I’ve never needed to use a stop to do a maillon. Was it ever a deliberate feature or just coincidence? It’s not like you’d use it to rig a pitch with is it! And user replaceable bobbins is about risk. Once they had to put a ce mark on it under the ppe regs it would only meet it as originally supplied and the rules around replaceable parts gets sticky. If someone were to not reassemble it properly whose fault is that? Just eliminate the issue - far easier.

 

[pwhole]

I just take a 12mm spanner for maillons. I'm still using the Banana descender with custom stainless bobbins, and got four years' use out of them before I flipped them over a year ago. I use a Rig for work, and would struggle to improve on that. But I'm always sad when they make me use an i'D. Great for tensioned lines though - as the old Stop was

 

[Inglesport]

Perhaps another descender to consider is the S. Tec FLOW. It has stainless friction surfaces and is available:

• Without an anti-panic function (red version), or;
• with an anti-panic function (green version).

 

[aricooperdavis]

Perhaps another descender to consider is the S. Tec FLOW. It has stainless friction surfaces and is available:

• Without an anti-panic function (red version), or;
• with an anti-panic function (green version).

The PRISM and S. Tec FLOW both have a minimum rope diameter of 10.5mm. The rig manages 10mm, but the stop and simple go as low as 8.5mm. I appreciate that you can use descenders on ropes smaller than the minimum diameter, but why would you when they're not rated for it?

 

[Babyhagrid]

With stops (unworn ones at least) the problem I find is getting down fat 11mm ropes, especially stiff in situ ones. The rope has to be forced through, or the stop has to be half threaded.

 

[aricooperdavis]

With stops (unworn ones at least) the problem I find is getting down fat 11mm ropes, especially stiff in situ ones. The rope has to be forced through, or the stop has to be half threaded.

Disabling the braking function always is more than adequate for me to get down the nastiest club 11mm, but I do have a fairly worn stop. Can you still do this with the newer models?

 

[Babyhagrid]

Disabling the braking function always is more than adequate for me to get down the nastiest club 11mm, but I do have a fairly worn stop. Can you still do this with the newer models?

With the new model you can't disable the stop function at all unfortunately

 

[andrewmcleod]

The PRISM and S. Tec FLOW both have a minimum rope diameter of 10.5mm. The rig manages 10mm, but the stop and simple go as low as 8.5mm. I appreciate that you can use descenders on ropes smaller than the minimum diameter, but why would you when they're not rated for it?

New Rig is rated from 9mm on the mountaineering standard. I've had it hold me happily on 8mm. I've also had it slide on 9.5mm or even 10mm. Sadly the new Rig seems to wear a lot faster than the old Rig (since a lot of the wear is concentrated on the big metal pin bit rather than the cam).

 

[hannahb]

In 30 years I’ve never needed to use a stop to do a maillon. Was it ever a deliberate feature or just coincidence? It’s not like you’d use it to rig a pitch with is it!

I reckon coincidence - I don't expect it's good for the plates to be used like that. I've used a Stop to undo "seized" central maillons/D-rings on harnesses, which I couldn't undo by hand at the end of a trip (either the maillon slightly out of shape, or my hands too cold). Pretty handy in that situation. But not for rigging, that's for sure.

I don't tend to use a spanner for rigging, although I know I should. I carry one if I expect to be de-rigging.

 

[hannahb]

In fact I'm certain it's not designed to be used as a spanner, otherwise it would say in the instructions.

 

[Inglesport]

New Rig is rated from 9mm on the mountaineering standard. I've had it hold me happily on 8mm. I've also had it slide on 9.5mm or even 10mm. Sadly the new Rig seems to wear a lot faster than the old Rig (since a lot of the wear is concentrated on the big metal pin bit rather than the cam).

Just for interest: the Mountaineering standard that the Rig is approved to—EN15151-1—is written for belaying and abseiling devices for mountaineering.

The only test it requires on low stretch rope is to hold a 2kN load for 1 minute without slipping more than 300mm. There is also a drop test and strength test on dynamic climbing rope but that's it.

All the tests are carried out on new rope.